No more fines in the post from EU countries if you're on UK plates Options

[cp8759]

Regs published today https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1361/made so we should see a decrease in French and Italian threads (which seem to be the most common).

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[Korting]

Does that mean, we also cannot prosecute non British citizens who commit motoring offences in the UK?

I think you'll find there are far more non UK registered cars in the UK, than UK registered cars abroad.

[mickR]

Expect an increase in stops and spot fines when abroad then!

[cp8759]

Does that mean, we also cannot prosecute non British citizens who commit motoring offences in the UK?

We've never really done that, no UK police force has ever bothered prosecuting foreign registered offenders, it's just too much effort and hassle. For starters, you'd have issues proving a NIP was served abroad within the 14 day period. Secondly, it is unlikely s172 could have force of law outside the UK, so any correspondence issued could be safely ignored.

Of course, foreign offenders who are stopped at the roadside can be issued on-the-spot fines (or more precisely the police can take a roadside "deposit"), but we've been doing that for years.

So in practice, for UK law enforcement nothing will change.

[TryOut]

Does that mean, we also cannot prosecute non British citizens who commit motoring offences in the UK?

We've never really done that, no UK police force has ever bothered prosecuting foreign registered offenders, it's just too much effort and hassle. For starters, you'd have issues proving a NIP was served abroad within the 14 day period. Secondly, it is unlikely s172 could have force of law outside the UK, so any correspondence issued could be safely ignored.

Of course, foreign offenders who are stopped at the roadside can be issued on-the-spot fines (or more precisely the police can take a roadside "deposit"), but we've been doing that for years.

So in practice, for UK law enforcement nothing will change.

S172 doesn’t even work in Northern Ireland, there’s no way it works in Europe.

[progbloke]

Plus the fact that all communication has to be in a language that the recipient understands.

As most SCPs can barely communicate in English, I dread to think how they'd effectively communicate with Pierre, Klaus, Miguel or Guiseppe.

[southpaw82]

S172 doesn’t even work in Northern Ireland, there’s no way it works in Europe.

So what do SCPs do when faced with a vehicle registered in NI or a Crown Dependency?

[TryOut]

S172 doesn’t even work in Northern Ireland, there’s no way it works in Europe.

So what do SCPs do when faced with a vehicle registered in NI or a Crown Dependency?

What do you think they can do?

[southpaw82]

S172 doesn’t even work in Northern Ireland, there’s no way it works in Europe.

So what do SCPs do when faced with a vehicle registered in NI or a Crown Dependency?

What do you think they can do?

I think they can (and do) make enquiries to determine the RK’s address. They then serve an NIP and s 172. I have a view that the s 172 has no legal effect but I’m interested in your view.

[The Rookie]

So will the agreed deal overturn this change? Not clear yet to me.

[cp8759]

So will the agreed deal overturn this change? Not clear yet to me.

While I am only part way through reading it, as far as I understand it the answer is no. After all, the cross-border enforcement agreement doesn't apply to Switzerland or the EEA countries, so why would it apply to a non-EEA country like the UK?

[roythebus]

There's been a couple of cases on here of Swiss authorities contacting UK drivers about speeding fines.

[fluff34567]

There's been a couple of cases on here of Swiss authorities contacting UK drivers about speeding fines.

Swiss authorities contacted home office who forwarded the fine paperwork to the owners local plod or passed owners details to the swiss authorities. I'm not aware it has ever been an official agreement.

[cp8759]

There's been a couple of cases on here of Swiss authorities contacting UK drivers about speeding fines.

Swiss authorities contacted home office who forwarded the fine paperwork to the owners local plod or passed owners details to the swiss authorities. I'm not aware it has ever been an official agreement.

I'm not sure there's anything the Swiss authorities can do once they have those details, nor does plod have any authority to enforce a foreign issued criminal penalty.

[roythebus]

My point entirely. However, from what I've read on one of the FB political groups, there's a couple of paragraphs in the Trade Agreement with the EU that enables the exchange of RK details between the EU and UK authorities, but apparently nothing about the ability to collect fines from another country.

[cp8759]

My point entirely. However, from what I've read on one of the FB political groups, there's a couple of paragraphs in the Trade Agreement with the EU that enables the exchange of RK details between the EU and UK authorities, but apparently nothing about the ability to collect fines from another country.

Well of course not, after all these is no such agreement with Norway / Iceland / Switzerland even though (unlike the UK) they all participate, to different extents, in Schengen and the EU internal market. Cross-border collection of fines is only available between EU members.

[666]

My point entirely. However, from what I've read on one of the FB political groups, there's a couple of paragraphs in the Trade Agreement with the EU that enables the exchange of RK details between the EU and UK authorities, but apparently nothing about the ability to collect fines from another country.

Switzerland is not a party to the Trade Agreement.

[cp8759]

My point entirely. However, from what I've read on one of the FB political groups, there's a couple of paragraphs in the Trade Agreement with the EU that enables the exchange of RK details between the EU and UK authorities, but apparently nothing about the ability to collect fines from another country.

Switzerland is not a party to the Trade Agreement.

I was referring to the arrangements between Switzerland and the EU, to point out that there is no cross-border enforcement between the EU and Switzerland, notwithstanding the fact that Switzerland for all practical purposes is part of the EU market.

As for trade, there is a seperate trade agreement between the UK and Switzerland, which has nothing to do with the EU.

[cp8759]

CrimPR 30.10 (Financial penalties imposed in other European Union member States) repealed by The Criminal Procedure (Amendment) Rules 2021 rule 30(b) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/40/article/16/made, coming into force on 5 April 2021 as per rule 2(k) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/40/article/2/made

[The Rookie]

So we'll just see them continue to use 'debt collectors' to try and browbeat people into paying.