Polution has it really got worse |
Polution has it really got worse |
Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 07:08
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
I live in a London Suburb and as some of you know the ULEZ will be coming into force next year in Central London and 2021 in Inner London. All diesels older than 2015 (Euro 6 engines) and Petrols oldr than 2005 will be subjected to a surcharge at first and then banned altogether.
Which made me think, Has the air got more polluted in the say 25 years and if so why? In those 25 years the engines especially diesels have been designed to be much much cleaner than their predecessors, so what exactly is causing this extra pollution? |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 07:08
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 08:00
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#2
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
If you're interested enough, here's all the data you could want.
I think the short answer is that the nature of the pollution has changed; coal use has swindled to almost nothing and fuel efficiency has increased so sulphur dioxide, large particulates and hydrocarbons are way down, meanwhile vehicle usage and congestion have worsened and diesel use increased so NOx and small particulates are way up. Gone are the days when a day in central London left you with obvious black snot by the evening; it's far more insidious now. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 18:15
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
The big problem around here is that during peak hours there is so much congestion you just have loads of cars idling and on a pushbike obviously overtaking it is noticeably fouler air when you reach the queue.
Not helped by the councils obsession with traffic lights which means it is stop start all the time. If there was less congestion the air quality would be better. But it must still be many times better than when leaded petrol was still knocking about (or not knocking as the case may be). |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 18:45
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
About 15 years ago I had to give a lecture to an engineering group a couple of hundred yards from Hyde Park Corner
What struck me was how fresh the air in London was compared to breathing all the pollen and pesticides in rural Northamptonshire |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 22:26
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
About a year ago I went up to the peak district and was told the air was mo9re polluted than in London because of all the lorries going to the various cement works.
Personally I reckon that Sadiq Khans extension of the ULEZ in "inner London" has more to do with revenue raising than cutting pollution. The sad thing is that the poorer people who cant afford newer cars will be the brunt of it all. |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 22:30
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#6
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Personally I reckon that Sadiq Khans extension of the ULEZ in "inner London" has more to do with revenue raising than cutting pollution. Personally I reckon that most of Sadiq Khan's transport policies are aimed at eliminating private motoring and moving to the utopia of universal public transport. AKA the wet dream of the transport unions. Whether those policies will survive impact with reality, any more than reducing stop & search has when confronted with rising knife crime, is a different matter. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Fri, 27 Apr 2018 - 06:02
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
What I would like to do is to organise a car strike, in which ALL motorists ditch their cars for 1 week and go about their business on public transport. That should also include those people who work for London underground and bus companies, and see how London copes Trouble is it would damage this governments economy and as a Tory, I wouldn't want to see that
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Fri, 27 Apr 2018 - 07:05
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
And if we go carless the train drivers unions, the bus driver unions and the underground drivers unions will have an even greater ability to hold the rest of us to ransom.....
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 27 Apr 2018 - 13:00
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Even if it was possible obviously it would prove anything. Noone is expecting or forecasting every driver to switch to PT overnight.
It would be a gradual process which would have a gradual increase in supply. If it did happen ironically it would be good for the remaining motorists because they could never increase rail capacity quickly so more roads would be built initially, and they would need to be quick grade separated routes. It's the ironic thing here, people have got angry because they've put a special back route in for cyclists and put cycle parking on staff parking areas where i work (people unhappy because they are the closest spaces to the building). But the cycle parking is always full, and logically if everyone on a bike drove there would be much less space, and much longer queues to get onto site in the morning. Can't please everyone. |
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Sun, 29 Apr 2018 - 02:01
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,006 Joined: 29 Oct 2013 Member No.: 66,323 |
In those 25 years the engines especially diesels have been designed to be much much cleaner than their predecessors This is true, but only when being used for a long enough time that they get up to temp and all the extra cleaning tech can work. A ten minute journey in a modern diesel isn't good for emissions. |
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Sun, 29 Apr 2018 - 07:54
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
In those 25 years the engines especially diesels have been designed to be much much cleaner than their predecessors This is true, but only when being used for a long enough time that they get up to temp and all the extra cleaning tech can work. A ten minute journey in a modern diesel isn't good for emissions. The emissions test is only 20 minutes...... For a long time we have been driving diesels more and more, they produce more NOx generally than petrol but massively more particulates, the first control of particulates was on mass, the trouble is that to reduce the mass meant more smaller ones (the ones that actually do most harm) were produced, so the first iterations of cleaner Diesel were no better and arguably worse for us than the oreceeeding ones! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 04:31
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,006 Joined: 29 Oct 2013 Member No.: 66,323 |
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Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 10:15
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Cold start with the engine between 20C and 30C. The four urban driving cycles, and one extra-urban.
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Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 16:17
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
As an indication, for a petrol engine car to pass the test the catalyst has to be at operating temperature (conversion efficiencies for the 3 regulated pollutants greater than 90%) within 40seconds, any later and you have failed the test. On my last project we were getting that 90% within about 25 seconds.
I’ve not worked on Diesel emissions enough to know the equivalent. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 19 May 2018 - 12:13
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,860 Joined: 12 May 2012 Member No.: 54,871 |
What I would like to do is to organise a car strike, in which ALL motorists ditch their cars for 1 week and go about their business on public transport. That should also include those people who work for London underground and bus companies, and see how London copes Trouble is it would damage this governments economy and as a Tory, I wouldn't want to see that Quick answer is that London wouldn't cope - there's not enough buses etc to replace the cars. |
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