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Bus lane - mitigating circumstances rejected, Got a ticket for driving in a bus lane - mitigation refused.
Twistededge
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:07
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I was with a friend on my way from my home to his, travelling between Tower Bridge and Greenwich down Jamaica Road. The friend is an insulin dependent diabetic.

He started to have a hypo (low blood sugar) - and considering the traffic I made the judgement call to drive down the bus lane to get to Surrey Quays Shopping Centre so I could park and get him some fast acting carbs etc.

This was on the 28th October, but I did not receive the PCN until the 19th November! (it's dated correctly, so probably the fault of the post)

I appealed on the grounds of mitigation, which they rejected - I only received the rejection letter today!

They acknowledged the late arrival of the PCN, but this has not phased them.

I can no longer challenge it as their rejection only arrived today - way beyond the 28 days from the original "offence".

This all seems really unfair rolleyes.gif


This is the rejection letter - I'll upload the original PCN and my appeal once I find them...


[attachment=60138:PCN1.jpg]

[attachment=60139:PCN2.jpg]

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:08
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post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:07
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peterguk
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:09
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:07) *
so I could park and get him some fast acting carbs etc.


Youi kept the receipt? Paid by card?


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Twistededge
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:26
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:09) *
QUOTE (Twistededge @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:07) *
so I could park and get him some fast acting carbs etc.


Youi kept the receipt? Paid by card?
Bar of chocolate, paid by cash, no receipt. I could potentially get a witness statement from the friend however, although I doubt he'd go as far as a doctor's note etc.


However,

I just got off the phone from TFL -- and they seemed to admit the wording in the rejection letter is wrong.

What I mean is, they just told me I could make a formal representation after I receive an "enforcement notice" but not before - this contradicts the wording of the letter, which says I only have 28 days from the receipt of the PCN (which has now passed as I only had the rejection letter today)

This post has been edited by Twistededge: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 15:34
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:47
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Nothing wrong with the letter it explains what will happen and when correctly. You can wait for the EN and make formal representations or you can post the PCN so we can check that for errors. Also get and post the video and post a GSV link so we can check out signs and markings

Ask TfL for the traffic management order for the bus lane. There is probably an exemption for entering the bus lane for reasons beyond your control or in an emergency. You will need to prove on the balance of probability that any exemption claimed applies


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Twistededge
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 22:01
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:47) *
Nothing wrong with the letter it explains what will happen and when correctly.
This part seems off...

"If you do not pay the outstanding Penalty Charge amount, or make a formal representation within 28 days from the date of issue of the Penalty Charge Notice, and Enforcement Notice may be issued"

This means I cannot make a formal representation because (1) I received the rejection letter (for the informal representation) outside of the 28 days and (2) have not received the Enforcement Notice yet. The language isn't clear.

This is Google Street View link; I was heading East:

https://goo.gl/maps/VZNJX1wtJq82

[attachment=60141:gsv.jpg]

This is the original PCN, or all that I can find of it - as I stated, it arrived on 19th; my estate is like a labyrinth and have a feeling it went to the wrong address...

[attachment=60142:pcn_original.jpg]

These were the photos they included:

[attachment=60143:download.gif]

[attachment=60144:download__2_.gif]






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Incandescent
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 22:50
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IMHO, the only avenue for a successful appeal is your diabetic friend needing urgent attention. So he needs to help you by providing a witness statement, and also proof of diabetes (some sort of medical document). However, you now have to wait for the EN and submit reps to that incl the documents suggested. TfL may then decide to drop it, but if not, just take them to London Tribunals, but if you do, it will be best if you attend personally.
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 07:19
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I cannot access the bus lane order for TfL or Bermondsey to look for exemptions. However, outside London, an order usually states you can enter a bus lane:-

--- to such an extent and for such a time as is needed to comply with any requirement
resulting from works or an emergency;

My daughter is a Type 1 diabetic and in my view (obviously!) a hypo would count as an emergency.

Here's what PATROL specifies:-

https://www.patrol-uk.info/docs/Bus_Lane_Paper.pdf

Mick



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Neil B
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:22
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 22:01) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:47) *
Nothing wrong with the letter it explains what will happen and when correctly.
This part seems off...

"If you do not pay the outstanding Penalty Charge amount, or make a formal representation within 28 days from the date of issue of the Penalty Charge Notice, and Enforcement Notice may be issued"

This means I cannot make a formal representation because (1) I received the rejection letter (for the informal representation) outside of the 28 days and (2) have not received the Enforcement Notice yet. The language isn't clear.

I initially dismissed your idea, having not read properly but now that you've flagged the sentence, actually, you're right and I see that
it then goes on to contradict itself by giving you the correct info. Yes, potentially confusing.

Whether it would fly is another matter.

It's complicated by being a statement on a non-statutory rejection, i.e. you have no right of informal challenge under
the farcical 1996/2000 legislation and neither do they have to respond. So does it count?

Did the PCN invite challenges?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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TigerRob
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:51
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:22) *
It's complicated by being a statement on a non-statutory rejection, i.e. you have no right of informal challenge under
the farcical 1996/2000 legislation and neither do they have to respond. So does it count?

The council don't have to respond, but surely if they choose to respond their response must be accurate?

This post has been edited by TigerRob: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:51
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Neil B
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 13:15
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QUOTE (TigerRob @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:51) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 12:22) *
It's complicated by being a statement on a non-statutory rejection, i.e. you have no right of informal challenge under
the farcical 1996/2000 legislation and neither do they have to respond. So does it count?

The council don't have to respond, but surely if they choose to respond their response must be accurate?

Would be part of the potential argument, yes Rob, but whether an adjudicator embraces it is another matter.
Ditto if they'd invited informal challenges in the first place.

It might be a lever to secure an adjudicators acceptance of OP's prime case of mitigation, which is, so far, hard
to prove.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 14:20
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This TfL case shows medical emergency as a valid reason for exemption.

218044436A

When the appellant and Mrs Wallington attended on 10 December I received evidence from them of the medical circumstances, including triple bypass and aortic valve replacement performed in Barts. One of the side-effects of the treatment appears to have been post-operative delirium.
The consultant authorised discharge and I have seen the discharge sheets printed at 1541 on the day in question.
Despite what the appellant wrote it was not his wife who was driving, but the appellant's stepson. I have no doubt that it was he who had gone to Barts to deal with the patient's transfer back home.
TfL correctly identified the car as stopped where stopping was not generally permitted at the material time. The stop was approximately 2 minutes and the stepson is shown carrying a bottle of liquid and what TfL has described as some food.
The appellant version of events is that the stop was genuinely necessary as a consequence of the appellant vomiting and needing personal cleaning. Wipes were bought with water. As TfL knows many motorists do plead sudden illness and/or vomiting as an explanation for stopping contrary to red route rules and for the purpose of buying a can or bottle of something or other to clean up. Adjudicators for their part are frequently recipients of wholly dishonest explanations of that sort (and also exaggerated ones) which can arise.
In this particular case both Mr and Mrs Wallington have I believe truthfully described the genuine crisis in the car on the way back from hospital. I have borne in mind that all car occupants were stressed due to the major surgery. I have accepted vomiting did occur as described to me and I have decided there is sufficient evidence to conclude that the vehicle was stopped for the purpose of giving help in consequence of an emergency. The traffic order concerned provides an exemption for this.
I have recorded the appeal as allowed.


your job is to show that it was a medical emergency,

The slight confusion in the wording of the rejection (a non statutory letter can easily be dismissed under the slip rule) to use it IMO risks alienating an adjudicator to your real reason for the contravention


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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:16
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 14:20) *
The slight confusion in the wording of the rejection (a non statutory letter can easily be dismissed under the slip rule) to use it IMO risks alienating an adjudicator to your real reason for the contravention

I'm inclined to agree, it's a non-statutory response so I would concentrate on the medical emergency.


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Twistededge
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:54
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Thank you.

I am going to concentrate on the medical emergency, which it was -- and I'll be seeing the friend over the weekend to let him know that I'll need him to write a letter at some point.

However, multi-pronged attack -- I did receive the PCN too late, and their response to my informal appeal demonstrates a lack of competence which added to my distress-- and, that can also be backed up by the phone call to TFL where the operator seemed to agree with me.

I'm tired now but will study everything in more detail when I have more energy. smile.gif
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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:11
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How is the PCN late? It was issued less than a week after the contravention, well within the allowed timescale.


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Twistededge
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 21:56
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:11) *
How is the PCN late? It was issued less than a week after the contravention, well within the allowed timescale.

It arrived late -- it may have been the fault of the post office, or it may have arrived at a neighbour's who neglected to pass it onto me (where I live is a labyrinth).

I don't know but it's annoying sad.gif
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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 22:59
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How late did it arrive?


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Twistededge
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 04:12
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 22:59) *
How late did it arrive?
On the 19th November as I already stated in the opening post:

QUOTE
This was on the 28th October, but I did not receive the PCN until the 19th November!
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peterguk
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 08:46
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QUOTE (Twistededge @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 21:56) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 20:11) *
How is the PCN late? It was issued less than a week after the contravention, well within the allowed timescale.

It arrived late -- it may have been the fault of the post office, or it may have arrived at a neighbour's who neglected to pass it onto me (where I live is a labyrinth).

I don't know but it's annoying sad.gif


Find out when it was posted.


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cp8759
post Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 11:50
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Well even if the PCN was served on 19 November it is still not out of time. At most you could complain that you didn't have the option of paying the discounted penalty, but they're likely to re-offer that anyway to dissuade you from taking the case to the tribunal.


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Twistededge
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 11:51
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I had a notice of enforcement last week, and as such I have prepared this letter....

I haven't mentioned anything about the PCN arriving late or the wording of the informal rejection letter.

I have some evidence from my passenger to send in.

Is there anything else I should add?

QUOTE
Dear Sir / Madam

I am appealing mitigation on this PCN on the grounds of a legitimate medical emergency.

At the time of the alleged contravention, the passenger in my car became very ill.

He suffers with insulin dependent diabetes, and at the time in question had sudden and unexpected hypoglycaemia (an extreme blood sugar drop, commonly called a “hypo”) and had slumped down into the car, almost unconscious.

When someone with diabetes is undergoing this type of emergency, it is vitally important to receive fast acting carbohydrate (glucose) in order to raise blood sugar levels and return to full consciousness.

Without intervention there was a risk of diabetic coma. While I am not a medical professional, I did know it was of utmost importance to attend to the emergency promptly, and as such, I made a judgment call to use the bus lane.

The nearest safe stopping place to get treatment was at the Surrey Quays Shopping Centre about half a mile ahead – there was a traffic jam and it would have taken an exceptionally long time to get there under normal circumstances.

Therefore, I appreciate you taking the time to consider the mitigating circumstances of this contravention.

Notes:

1. I have included a letter from my passenger to confirm this.
2. I have included evidence from his GP to verify the authenticity of his condition.



Cheers :0)

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