[NIP Wizard] Second NIP in 2 months. So annoyed Options

[Kelevra]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - June 2017
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A1235 CRANES FARM ROAD, BASILDON, AT ITS JUNCTION WITH MILES GRAY ROAD, UNITED KINGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Guys, seriously

I am thinking about protesting this in the courts and saying the speed camera is broken, i have driven this route now for 2 years, nothing has changed, and within 2 months i have 2 NIPS. One on the 23rd of May last month, and now one for the 16th. The first was doing 49 in the 40, the one i received today was 50 in the 40. Completely clean licence, the only time ive ever been stopped was when a police car was looking for a similar car to mine

I have just booked the course for my first NIP, so im pretty sure they will offer me 3 points, should i just suck it up and take the 3 points and the fine?? Or is there any viable option for me to go to court and contest this? Is there a chance i could end up with more than 3 points? Basically, do i have anything to lose by going to the courts and saying that i think that speed camera has a fault? I know this is said alot on here, but something feels very wrong

Also, you can ignore the field that asks for the date of the NIP, its not like it came out of the 14 day period so i doubt it makes much difference

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:57:16 +0000

[Advertisement]

[Jlc]

Basically, do i have anything to lose by going to the courts and saying that i think that speed camera has a fault?

Yes. The approved device will be presumed correct unless you can show otherwise. Simply saying you think it has a fault will likely see you convicted and pick up a large costs bill (£300-600+), surcharge and an income-related fine. But still only 3 points.

I know this is said alot on here, but something feels very wrong

Looks like this camera. There's little reason to doubt the measurement, it's measured twice by buried sensors and should be corroborated by a check mark.

However, right now, you should ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver and they will normally supply a shot. But they don't have to and the 28 day clock to name the driver does not stop.

I presume you are saying you weren't doing 50?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 16:07

[Kelevra]

Basically, do i have anything to lose by going to the courts and saying that i think that speed camera has a fault?

Yes. The approved device will be presumed correct unless you can show otherwise. Simply saying you think it has a fault will likely see you convicted and pick up a large costs bill (£300-600+), surcharge and an income-related fine. But still only 3 points.

I know this is said alot on here, but something feels very wrong

Looks like this camera. There's little reason to doubt the measurement, it's measured twice by buried sensors and should be corroborated by a check mark.

However, right now, you should ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver and they will normally supply a shot. But they don't have to and the 28 day clock to name the driver does not stop.

I presume you are saying you weren't doing 50?

It does look like that Camera, but it isnt (cant be), because that camera that you have shown me i only pass on the way home, so theres no way it wouldve caught me at 7.42 in the morning

Honestly, its more the points im worried about as appose to the charge, but thankyou

And i will definately ask for snapshots, because both of my NIP's are from this camera at 7 in the morning, but its physically impossible for me to have been doing past these cameras?!

Sorry to be clear, the picture that you showed me, those are pictures of the camera in question??? or were you just showing me an example of them??

Also, hell no! i barely go at the camera limit when im going past cameras

This post has been edited by Kelevra: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 16:20

[peterguk]

both of my NIP's are from this camera at 7 in the morning, but its physically impossible for me to have been doing past these cameras?!

So are you saying it was not you or your car that was caught?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 16:22

[Kelevra]

both of my NIP's are from this camera at 7 in the morning, but its physically impossible for me to have been doing past these cameras?!

So are you saying it was not you or your car that was caught?

I haven't seen snapshots, but like i said, unless cameras can reach across what, 4 lanes of traffic onto the other side of the road and snap traffic coming in the opposite direction (which may be possible?!), then it is physically IMPOSSIBLE that it was me.

Either that, or both of the NIP's are timestamped wrong, which i find hard to believe.

I leave my house everyday between 7.10-7.30 to go into Basildon, this camera (if it is in-fact the one that Jlc showed) could NOT be snapping me at 7.40 or 7.50 AM

How exactly would i go about asking for snapshots of the driver?

[Jlc]

There's a camera a bit further on, on the other side of the road too.

Simply ask for photo's to assist in the identification of the driver...

[The Rookie]

Just the other side of the lights there is a camera pointing the other way, you can see it directly from that link, so presumably you passed on or other of them?

[Kelevra]

Just the other side of the lights there is a camera pointing the other way, you can see it directly from that link, so presumably you passed on or other of them?

You my friend, are indeed correct lol

Damn

I hadn't even got to mentioning that i thought these cameras were for cars, going past a red light, still seems odd, ive driven this route everyday since i got my job, no issues, then twice in 2 months, sucks ass

Oh well, looks like im buggered then

If that camera is there to catch people doing over 40 then im willing to bet it was me, thanks for all the replies!

This post has been edited by Kelevra: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 - 16:47

[Jlc]

Redlight cameras can be converted to 'speed on green'. They can capture light jumpers and speeders.

They would trigger at 46mph, so perhaps you've been through under this threshold...

[Kelevra]

Redlight cameras can be converted to 'speed on green'. They can capture light jumpers and speeders.

They would trigger at 46mph, so perhaps you've been through under this threshold...

Well that's good to know lol..

Looks like I'm gonna be coming home paranoid everyday for the next couple weeks, coz I have certainly never looked at these cameras and thought they were doing anything more than catching red light hoppers! The speed camera on my side of the road comes right after a roundabout, if I've been speeding there then I guess it's coz the road is so empty at that time. I actually feel like a royal prat, the first NIP I got, I assumed it was for the speed camera that I pass on the a127 right before turning off for basildon, should've actually looked online and verified, I have been dramatically slowing down for the wrong camera

[BaggieBoy]

If you search Pepipoo for "Cranes Farm Road" you will find a number of similar cases, e.g.: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...40&start=40. Suspected on that thread that the camera had been converted to also catch speeders recently.

[peterguk]

I have been dramatically slowing down for the wrong camera

Common for people to habitually speed except for where cameras are.

[Kelevra]

I have been dramatically slowing down for the wrong camera

Common for people to habitually speed except for where cameras are.

Aha this is true, I believe I'm a pretty safe driver, but I'd be lying if I said I always keep to the limit when there are no cameras around. This will be the 3rd camera incident I've been involved in that I had no idea that the cameras did what they did, first was my partner getting flashed by what I always thought were average speed cameras on the m25 at night

I think from now on I'll just stick to assuming all cameras are working at all times.. oh, and I'll also make sure to actually check the camera online next time lol

[IanJohnsonWS14]

I have been dramatically slowing down for the wrong camera

Common for people to habitually speed except for where cameras are.

Aha this is true, I believe I'm a pretty safe driver, but I'd be lying if I said I always keep to the limit when there are no cameras around. This will be the 3rd camera incident I've been involved in that I had no idea that the cameras did what they did, first was my partner getting flashed by what I always thought were average speed cameras on the m25 at night

I think from now on I'll just stick to assuming all cameras are working at all times.. oh, and I'll also make sure to actually check the camera online next time lol

It is quite surprising how some people willingly incriminate themselves on the internet. Be careful what you post in future.

[Eggpie]

I also got an NIP on the EAST bound but the camera saying I was doing well over 50mph on that small stretch.
Do anyone know whether I can use my phone location as evidence for timing as I believe the time of the incident is incorrect ?
and I was at the cinema checking out Wonder woman for over 2hrs.

Anyone got the latest calibration of that the camera ?

[Jlc]

I also got an NIP on the EAST bound but the camera saying I was doing well over 50mph on that small stretch.
Do anyone know whether I can use my phone location as evidence for timing as I believe the time of the incident is incorrect ?
and I was at the cinema checking out Wonder woman for over 2hrs.

Anyone got the latest calibration of that the camera ?

Start a new thread.

(Speed) calibration won't be an issue - you'll need to elaborate on the time 'issue'.

[Kelevra]

I also got an NIP on the EAST bound but the camera saying I was doing well over 50mph on that small stretch.
Do anyone know whether I can use my phone location as evidence for timing as I believe the time of the incident is incorrect ?
and I was at the cinema checking out Wonder woman for over 2hrs.

Anyone got the latest calibration of that the camera ?

The NIP's don't normally say which way you were travelling, are you sure that your not just confusing which direction you were going in? lol.

Because that was my first issue.. I didn't realize there were two cameras on either side of the road, so i was being flashed at 7.30-8AM, which would've been impossible for me coz it would've meant i was travelling home from work in the morning... BUT then it was pointed out to me that there were of course 2 Cameras, and it all made sense lol

Good luck either way

[Kelevra]

Just received another one in the post today

51 in the 40,

Is there a point in me sending them a cover letter asking that these two penalties be rolled into one?

As it currently stands; I have to do a speed awareness course, and will get 6 points off my liscence, in the form of two 3 point penalties

[Jlc]

You can only but ask - but they do not have to oblige.

The angle would be that had you been stopped/made away of your 'transgression' at the time then you would have had the opportunity to modify your behaviour. However, there's a counter argument that you should have been driving within the limit anyway and didn't need notification to modify this...

(If they have recently enabled the camera and lots have been caught then they might be more receptive)

[Kelevra]

You can only but ask - but they do not have to oblige.

The angle would be that had you been stopped/made away of your 'transgression' at the time then you would have had the opportunity to modify your behaviour. However, there's a counter argument that you should have been driving within the limit anyway and didn't need notification to modify this...

(If they have recently enabled the camera and lots have been caught then they might be more receptive)

Hi

Yes I imagined this would be the counter argument, so I was planning to put that out straight away, that while I would have modified my behaviour sooner if I had known, it doesn't form an excuse or any justification. Basically to just plead gross stupidity on my part