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Statutory declaration.
AgentJay
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 12:05
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Just require some insite on where best to go next. On the 8th march I received a notice saying I was been charged with traffic offences.

2 for speeding and failing to give driver information. I had never had any notices previous to this so I immediately went onto the make a plea website and pleaded not guilty and stated I had never received any prior paper work.

Fast forward to a few days ago and I came back off holiday to a further steps notice for not paying a fine.

I didn't even know at this point the 2 items were related so I phoned the court to be told it was for the offences above and I had be found built in my absence. I immediately told them yet again I was not made aware of any trial. She went away and came back asking me to confirm my address this I did and stated I have lived here over 5 years. The paperwork had gone to an address I lived at over 9 years ago. Not even my previous address which was my parents.

I have am appointment now in November to make a statutory declaration. But wonder if there is anything else I should be doing.
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post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 12:05
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andy_foster
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 12:27
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The most practical thing you can do at the moment (other than possibly performing a statutory declaration elsewhere and serving it on the court, which tends to confuse them) is try to work out how this has happened to give you a head start on the viability of any applicable defences.

Presumably the first notice you received was a Single justice Procedure Notice? If so, it would have specified the time, date. location, vehicle and nature of these 'traffic offences'. Was it addressed to you at your current address, or forwarded?

What is your relationship to the vehicle? If it is your vehicle, is the V5C up to date (does it have your correct name and current address - particularly the address)?
Is the address on your driving licence correct/current?


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AgentJay
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 12:53
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I am the owner and registered keeper of the vehicle.

I have lived at my current address since 2014 and the car is registered at this address. I never got anything to do with admitting or naming the driver. The first letter I got was the plead guilty or not guilty to the offences in March. Which I did online.

Then after this all paperwork according to the lady at court has gone to an address I lived at over 9 years ago. Left their in March 2011.

Yes my license is at this address to. Missed that in your post.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 13:46
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Have you got out the V5c registration document and checked (acknowledging it’s unusual to keep a car that long)?

Do you have any other connection with that address (your parents house for example)?

Presumably you were found guilty at a new date which you didn’t receive (not that your plea wasn’t received)?


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AgentJay
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 13:59
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The car is only 6 years old and I have owned it for 4 years all at my current address. I was found guilty in my absence. The address in question was a house I rented no other connection to it.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 14:01
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 13:46) *
Presumably you were found guilty at a new date which you didn’t receive (not that your plea wasn’t received)?

Being found guilty in your absence doesn’t answer this question........


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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AgentJay
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 14:10
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I can only assume so. The next letter from them is a further steps notice. I have an email confirmation from my justice.gov plea online.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 15:27
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How long ago was the plea submitted?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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AgentJay
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 15:36
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March 9th the day I received the letter.
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AgentJay
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 16:25
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 13:27) *
The most practical thing you can do at the moment (other than possibly performing a statutory declaration elsewhere and serving it on the court, which tends to confuse them) is try to work out how this has happened to give you a head start on the viability of any applicable defences.

Presumably the first notice you received was a Single justice Procedure Notice? If so, it would have specified the time, date. location, vehicle and nature of these 'traffic offences'. Was it addressed to you at your current address, or forwarded?

What is your relationship to the vehicle? If it is your vehicle, is the V5C up to date (does it have your correct name and current address - particularly the address)?
Is the address on your driving licence correct/current?


Why does sending a statutory declaration confuse them. I am confused everywhere I read reads like bend over and take it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 16:36
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Why does it confuse them? Don’t know, ask them, while the law says they must accept it, it’s not always that easy.

Which is why we suggest doing at court which they can cope with.

What has happened doesn’t necessarily give you any defence.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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AgentJay
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 16:58
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So not receiving any paperwork. To getting some that made me aware and then finally them getting the address messed up again is not a defence.
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Redivi
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 17:11
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The OP said that he doesn't have an appointment to make the Statutory Declaration until November

Has this frozen any action to recover the fine and is he at risk that the DVLA will revoke his licence for failure to return it so the points can be added ?

If the delay has potential to escalate his problems, it might be better after all to make the declaration at a solicitor
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AgentJay
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 17:20
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 18:11) *
The OP said that he doesn't have an appointment to make the Statutory Declaration until November

Has this frozen any action to recover the fine and is he at risk that the DVLA will revoke his licence for failure to return it so the points can be added ?

If the delay has potential to escalate his problems, it might be better after all to make the declaration at a solicitor


Am hoping this isn't a problem. If they try to enforce the fine can I not point them to the fact their is an appointment with the court. If points have been added I still do not know about them as I have never been informed of any. But my license is clean.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 17:32
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QUOTE (AgentJay @ Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 17:58) *
So not receiving any paperwork. To getting some that made me aware and then finally them getting the address messed up again is not a defence.

Not to the underlying offence, no. Why should it be?


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AgentJay
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 17:47
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My own Google maps history shows I wasn't at that location at that time. But doesn't help me with who was driving could be 1 of another 3 people.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 17:52
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I'm still waiting to hear (or read) the OP state that he has the V5C in his hand - which is why we usually ask them for the date after the DocRef No. at the bottom of page 2.

Most (but not all) instances of paperwork taking somewhat circuitous routes to not get to the OP are as a result of the V5C not showing their correct address (or not being registered to them at all), despite numerous protests that they are variously the registered owner/registered keeper/etc.



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 18:32) *
QUOTE (AgentJay @ Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 17:58) *
So not receiving any paperwork. To getting some that made me aware and then finally them getting the address messed up again is not a defence.

Not to the underlying offence, no. Why should it be?


If the OP is the RK and his details are correctly recorded on the DVLA database/PNC as keeper, then the failure to serve a NIP would be a defence to the underlying offence and not serving the s. 172 requirement (invariably in the same notice) would negate the s. 172 offence - assuming that the OP can convince the court on the balance of probabilities that they were not delivered.


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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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AgentJay
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 18:32
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Sorry if not made clear. Yes the v5 is in my name at my current correct address and has been since purchase in March 2015.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 18:51
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It’ll be interesting to see why the NIP went to the old address or why the police thought they didn’t have to send one then.


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AgentJay
post Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 18:57
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The statement pack they sent before enclosed a copy at my current address and that they had confirmed it as my address. But then all other correspondence seems to have gone to a very old address.

To be clear prior to the you are being charged with letter. I never received anything

This post has been edited by AgentJay: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 - 18:58
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