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Bus Lane PCN in London
JustMe2017
post Thu, 21 Dec 2017 - 20:59
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Hi all,
I've received a PCN for 'Being in a Bus Lane' on Lambeth Road in London, on my scooter.
I drove through the area of a zebra crossing (the zig-zags), thinking that the zig-zags area did not constitute a bus lane (no sold white line, therefore no bus lane - is my reasoning).
I did 'cut the corner' of the bus-lane while doing a U-turn, and did encroach on it for a few meters (5-10 metres I would guess).... I didn't think driving for just a few yards in a bus lane was a problem.
Photos of the 'infringement' are below, along with copies of the PCN.
Any advice on if I can argue anything about this would be very much appreciated.

My initial thoughts... (which may all be nonsense, as I have no legal background!)...

1. My understanding is that a bus lane is marked by a solid white line. If there is no solid white line (i.e. through the zig-zags), then surely this can't be a bus-lane?
2. I only drove through (what I understand to be) the bus-lane (solid white line) for just a few yards..... I thought there was some kind of 20-metre rule (or did I imagine that?!)
3. They have supplied 4 images (below). 1 of them shows the scooter doing a U-turn and encroaching on the last few yards of what I thought was a bus-lane, however the registration plate is not visible. Surely this is not any proof of the scooter in question contravening anything, as it can not be identified.
4 The next 2 images show the scooter driving through the zig-zags; the registration plate is not readable. So, firstly I don't think this is part of the bus lane, and secondly the scooter can't be identified from these photos.
5. The 4th & final image shows a close-up of the registration plate, but nothing else in the picture; this is therefore not an image of any contravention?
6. I read somewhere else on this forum that the images they supplied should all have certain specific information, in a specific order.....

"Section 5.1.2 - every image of the offence shall show, in addition to the offending vehicle, in the order given: the date in days, month, and year, the time in hours, minutes, and seconds, the day of the week, location and frame count from the beginning of the recording. The data shall be imprinted on the image or included in the violation record at the time the offence is recorded.".

Well, none of these images shows the day of the week. Does this mean the PCN is invalid?
7. Because I performed a U-turn which resulted in me entering the bus lane for a few yards, I didn't actually pass any Bus-lane signs (to show me whether or not motorcycle are permitted in this lane, as of course many bus lanes do permit motorcycles), as these are further back up the road. So I can't have been aware of whether motorcycles are permitted or not (I realise I may be clutching at straws with this one!)

Any help or advice would be gratefully received!













This post has been edited by JustMe2017: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 - 21:02
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post Thu, 21 Dec 2017 - 20:59
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peterguk
post Thu, 21 Dec 2017 - 21:04
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Post a link to the video.


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JustMe2017
post Thu, 21 Dec 2017 - 21:11
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Ok, link to video here...
I've uploaded it as an unlisted video to youtube, don't know if that's the right way to do it?

PCN_BusLane_London

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stamfordman
post Thu, 21 Dec 2017 - 21:37
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We've seen this lane and the crossing before and recently. PMB posted a successful appeal regarding a zebra in a bus lane in another case too.

I'll dig them out later.
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JustMe2017
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 08:15
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Just a quick update on this....

My appeal was rejected by Lambeth Council.

The reason they have given is that there is clearly a bus-lane sign on Lambeth Road, in the direction of Kennington Road, opposite Pratt Walk, approx 30 metres before the bus lane.

However.... this bus lane & bus lane sign they are referring to in their letter of rejection is NOT the bus lane which this matter is concerned with!
This matter is actually concerned with the bus lane on the OPPOSITE side of the road and in the other direction!

This case will go to a tribunal in a couple of weeks.
So.... my question is - can I win purely on their failure to understand which bus lane they are supposed to be talking about?!

Also, they have made no reference to my argument whatsoever in their rejection letter (that a zig-zags area can not be part of a bus lane); they have simply ignored it.
Can I also win the case based purely on their failure to consider my appeal before rejecting it?

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cp8759
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 09:18
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The short answer is yes, you can win if they have failed to consider relevant matters and have considered irrelevant matters. However you'd be best advised to upload your representations to the council, their rejection letter, and a draft of your appeal to the tribunal. We can then check that the point is argued correctly.


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John U.K.
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 09:25
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QUOTE
However you'd be best advised to upload your representations to the council, their rejection letter, and a draft of your appeal to the tribunal.


+1

All you earlier images have disappeared, so you need to begin with the PCN and continue with all sides of all correspondence to and from the Council. See below for how to do it. Also add a GAV (Google Street View) link to the location.

What is the date of the hearing?
Have you received the Evidence Pack from Lambeth?
What did you write in Box 6 when you registerd the appeal?

To post images and docs - Try this:

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr (where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing), which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
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JustMe2017
post Sat, 26 May 2018 - 13:39
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Thanks for the replies.
Unfortunately I'm not at home until next weekend so can't upload anything before then.

Tribunal date is 5th June.
No I haven't received an evidence pack from the council.
Not sure what box 6 is?

I have uploaded a scan of a previous adjudication as part of my evidence for the adjudicator, so I hope that is acceptable to them.
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JustMe2017
post Tue, 5 Jun 2018 - 16:14
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I won my appeal with the adjudicator this morning at the tribunal biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Adjudicator immediately agreed with me that a zig-zags area of a road can not be part of a bus lane.
He also said that while I crossed the solid white line, it was only for a few yards so it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for the help I received for this! Well happy smile.gif

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stamfordman
post Tue, 5 Jun 2018 - 16:22
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Very well done

What's the case ref number?

Sorry we weren't more help - I meant to cross-ref other cases.
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JustMe2017
post Tue, 5 Jun 2018 - 16:26
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Case ref number:

2180174403

This post has been edited by JustMe2017: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 - 16:27
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