PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Parking&Management charge for parking in my own bay
S1one
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:10
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,036



Hello

On December 12th I got charge from Parking&Management for not displaying permit while parking in bay I am renting with flat. I displayed permit form P&M but it slipped under windscreen.
On the same day I used their webpage to write appeal, tried to explained that it slipped, but they rejected on January 7th.

Do I have any options, instead of paying £60?

Please check their response, photo of car and of signage attached:
http://44112d66ecae1c1ff3eb-bcb5cc599f865d...%20response.pdf
http://44112d66ecae1c1ff3eb-bcb5cc599f865d...212_0738199.jpg
http://44112d66ecae1c1ff3eb-bcb5cc599f865d...117_0746398.jpg


Thank you
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 18)
Advertisement
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:10
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:36
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



What does your lease say?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 07:51
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,088
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



And strangely that notice is a prohibitive notice. There is no offer of parking to those who are not fully displaying a badge and therefore no contract and there can be no breach of contract. Any charge is an unrecoverable penalty.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 08:37
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Just FYI - they will almost certainly raise a court claim... Get prepared.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
S1one
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:05
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,036



Hello ostell

Can you please add more to your comment, elaborate please?

QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 07:51) *
And strangely that notice is a prohibitive notice. There is no offer of parking to those who are not fully displaying a badge and therefore no contract and there can be no breach of contract. Any charge is an unrecoverable penalty.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:21
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



The charge is raised as a contractual invoice, by doing 'this' you agreed to pay 'this'. Consider it like paying for premium parking.

As the sign says you cannot park unless displaying a permit, how can the driver enter a contract to pay if they do park there (without displaying a permit), simply put they cannot.

What it needs t say is parking free if you display a permit, £100 if you do not. That is a contractual offer the driver can be bound by.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:22


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
S1one
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:49
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,036



Hello The Rookie,

It says is permitted for vehicles fully displaying a valid parking permit.

Are you saying that line "by parking or reaming at this site otherwise that in accordance with the above, you the driver are agreeing to following contractual terms.. " is to vague and should simply say "parking free if you display a permit, £100 if you do not." and 1st line doesn't offer space for those not displaying permit, so it cannot be a contract?

Cheers
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:02
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



No I'm saying that if parking is permitted ONLY for those displaying a permit, then if you're not displaying a permit your not permitted to park. How can you enter a contract to pay for doing something they say you can't do in the first place? It's obviously impossible to do that.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:24
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



...potentially trespassing. (For which the parking company cannot pursue)

Forbidding contracts have been known to work but not always.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
S1one
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:37
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,036



I wasn't trespassing, I still have valid permit. On what should I relay on for my witness statement?

This post has been edited by S1one: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:39
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Steve_999
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:40
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,397
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
From: West Sussex
Member No.: 20,304



QUOTE (S1one @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:37) *
I wasn't trespassing, I still have valid permit. On what should I relay on for my witness statement?


Answer the question in post #2. If you have the right to park with no conditions such as displaying a permit, they have no right to try and impose conditions.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:46
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (S1one @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:37) *
I wasn't trespassing

You're missing the point as it may not be your land... But indeed, the question asked above is important.

(You may have been trespassing (in law) but the amount the landholder could claim would be severely limited)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:47


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
S1one
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:51
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,036



I don't have anything about parking bay in my tenancy agreement.

This post has been edited by S1one: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:52
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 14:34
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



How do yo uknwo you are renting that bay with that flat. WHat told you this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
S1one
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 16:07
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,036



I got permit sent to me by post.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 16:11
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



That would be irrelevant without some sort of prior agreement, did you EXPECT a parking space with the flat?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 16:26
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



QUOTE (S1one @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 17:07) *
I got permit sent to me by post.


When you rented the flat, how did you know you were getting a parking space.
Was it in the advert? Letting agent told you> What?

SOMETHING told you that there was a space included. Whast was it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
S1one
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:35
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 14 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,036



Hello All

Today I got court hearing.
I wrote in witness statement:
I have valid parking permit for bay I was in.
Ticket slipped under windscreen, which I explained as unplanned and unforeseen circumstance.

Judge focus on few aspects:
I got valid permit,
I was parked in appropriate bay.
I wasn't fully displaying a valid ticket.
PCN has been issued lawfully.
Claimant didn't follow code of conduct when they rejected my appeal explaining my situation, because those regulation and charge should be applied to people parking without permit.

Case has been dismissed without right to appeal.
I got witness expenses, £105 paid within 14 days.

Thank you for your help.

All the best

This post has been edited by S1one: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:36
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:37
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Nice!


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 21:27
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here