Parking&Management charge for parking in my own bay |
Parking&Management charge for parking in my own bay |
Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:10
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14 Sep 2017 Member No.: 94,036 |
Hello
On December 12th I got charge from Parking&Management for not displaying permit while parking in bay I am renting with flat. I displayed permit form P&M but it slipped under windscreen. On the same day I used their webpage to write appeal, tried to explained that it slipped, but they rejected on January 7th. Do I have any options, instead of paying £60? Please check their response, photo of car and of signage attached: http://44112d66ecae1c1ff3eb-bcb5cc599f865d...%20response.pdf http://44112d66ecae1c1ff3eb-bcb5cc599f865d...212_0738199.jpg http://44112d66ecae1c1ff3eb-bcb5cc599f865d...117_0746398.jpg Thank you |
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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:10
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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:36
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
What does your lease say?
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 07:51
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
And strangely that notice is a prohibitive notice. There is no offer of parking to those who are not fully displaying a badge and therefore no contract and there can be no breach of contract. Any charge is an unrecoverable penalty.
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Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 08:37
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Just FYI - they will almost certainly raise a court claim... Get prepared.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:05
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14 Sep 2017 Member No.: 94,036 |
Hello ostell
Can you please add more to your comment, elaborate please? And strangely that notice is a prohibitive notice. There is no offer of parking to those who are not fully displaying a badge and therefore no contract and there can be no breach of contract. Any charge is an unrecoverable penalty. |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:21
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The charge is raised as a contractual invoice, by doing 'this' you agreed to pay 'this'. Consider it like paying for premium parking.
As the sign says you cannot park unless displaying a permit, how can the driver enter a contract to pay if they do park there (without displaying a permit), simply put they cannot. What it needs t say is parking free if you display a permit, £100 if you do not. That is a contractual offer the driver can be bound by. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:22 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:49
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14 Sep 2017 Member No.: 94,036 |
Hello The Rookie,
It says is permitted for vehicles fully displaying a valid parking permit. Are you saying that line "by parking or reaming at this site otherwise that in accordance with the above, you the driver are agreeing to following contractual terms.. " is to vague and should simply say "parking free if you display a permit, £100 if you do not." and 1st line doesn't offer space for those not displaying permit, so it cannot be a contract? Cheers |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:02
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
No I'm saying that if parking is permitted ONLY for those displaying a permit, then if you're not displaying a permit your not permitted to park. How can you enter a contract to pay for doing something they say you can't do in the first place? It's obviously impossible to do that.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:24
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
...potentially trespassing. (For which the parking company cannot pursue)
Forbidding contracts have been known to work but not always. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:37
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14 Sep 2017 Member No.: 94,036 |
I wasn't trespassing, I still have valid permit. On what should I relay on for my witness statement?
This post has been edited by S1one: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:39 |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:40
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,397 Joined: 12 Jun 2008 From: West Sussex Member No.: 20,304 |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:46
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I wasn't trespassing You're missing the point as it may not be your land... But indeed, the question asked above is important. (You may have been trespassing (in law) but the amount the landholder could claim would be severely limited) This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:47 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:51
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14 Sep 2017 Member No.: 94,036 |
I don't have anything about parking bay in my tenancy agreement.
This post has been edited by S1one: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 12:52 |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 14:34
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
How do yo uknwo you are renting that bay with that flat. WHat told you this.
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 16:07
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14 Sep 2017 Member No.: 94,036 |
I got permit sent to me by post.
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 16:11
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
That would be irrelevant without some sort of prior agreement, did you EXPECT a parking space with the flat?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 16:26
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
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Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:35
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14 Sep 2017 Member No.: 94,036 |
Hello All
Today I got court hearing. I wrote in witness statement: I have valid parking permit for bay I was in. Ticket slipped under windscreen, which I explained as unplanned and unforeseen circumstance. Judge focus on few aspects: I got valid permit, I was parked in appropriate bay. I wasn't fully displaying a valid ticket. PCN has been issued lawfully. Claimant didn't follow code of conduct when they rejected my appeal explaining my situation, because those regulation and charge should be applied to people parking without permit. Case has been dismissed without right to appeal. I got witness expenses, £105 paid within 14 days. Thank you for your help. All the best This post has been edited by S1one: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 18:36 |
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Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 19:37
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Nice!
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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