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Request Driver Detail Letter Received - No NIP
WJS2
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 04:38
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Morning.
My employer has received a letter, NOT a NIP from the Police requesting the driver details for my company car on the date of an alleged offence of dangerous driving, careless driving or driving without care for other road users. I am aware of the incident and what happened. Either the other party is delusional or they’ve deliberately lied to the Police. Usual state of affairs these days it seems.

Naturally my employer has provided my details and when the S172 arrives I’ll complete and return this in good time also.

My question is does the 14 days limit to provide a NIP begin from the date a similar letter is sent to me, or from the date I provide my details?

Given the lack of a NIP at this stage, can I assume it’s most likely the Police have little or no evidence and are simply following procedure by following up on a statement provided by the other party?
That would certainly tie in with what I remember of events on the day.

Obviously I have no intention of completing the “my version of events” box in the letter. I’ll wait and see what the details of the allegation are.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 04:38
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666
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 06:04
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Are you absolutely sure it's not a NIP? What exactly does the letter say?

As for the 14 days, that only applies to the first NIP, which is sent to the registered keeper. Is your employer the RK, or is the vehicle leased?
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WJS2
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 07:08
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QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 07:04) *
Are you absolutely sure it's not a NIP? What exactly does the letter say?

As for the 14 days, that only applies to the first NIP, which is sent to the registered keeper. Is your employer the RK, or is the vehicle leased?


The letter’s entitled “Application for Name and Address of Driver”.
It says it gives notice that the driver in charge of vehicle reg/detail is alleged to have driven or propelled etc dangerously, carelessly or without reasonable consideration etc at location on date and at time.

The recorded as insured or as person who may have information of the driver is required to complete the attached 172.

Details of the allegation won’t disclosed until the firm is returned.

Then note of the statutory requirement to complete and return the 172 within 28 days.

Nowhere does it state intention to prosecute or similar. Only that it’s an allegation.

It’s a leased company car so I imagine the registered keeper is the leasing company.
The letter is addressed to my employer and dated within 7 days of the alleged offence so the lease co have obviously already passed the firm’s details onto the Police.
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Redivi
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 07:46
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The Notice of Intended Prosecution is sent only to the registered keeper - the lease company

They're often confused but the S172 request for driver information is a separate document, although most police forces use the same letter
It can be sent to anyone at any time who the police believe may have information that will help to identify the driver
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WJS2
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 09:51
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I've just spoken to the leasing company, the registered keeper, who have no record of any enquiry from the Police. The assumption they've made is that the Police have got my employer's details from an enquiry to my company's insurers.

Is it possible that given that the letter asking for my driver details and the attached S172 arrived with my employer just 5 working days after the date of the alleged offence that this was just a simple enquiry to my firm's insurers and no NIP was sent to them?

To the layman, 5 days doesn't seem enough time for the complaint to be made, passed for processing, NIP produced, sent to insurers, insurers respond to Police with my employer's details, letter (no NIP) sent to my employer.


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The Rookie
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 10:00
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If an accident occurred within the meaning of the statute (which may not be your understanding of the word) no NIP is required, within 14 days or otherwise. Perhaps give us an indication of what the incident you are aware of was?


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WJS2
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 11:15
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No collision of any kind occurred. There was a moving driving incident involving the person I assume to be the complainant almost a mile before the location stated as the site of the alleged offence. They almost hit my car through their own carelessness.

I let this go, but we ended up in the same supermarket car park, where the driver of the other vehicle approached me. We both had words. He insisted he was in the right and called the Police. Given the driver's aggressive stance, I opted to leave and shop elsewhere!
When I'd got back in my car, he was quite insistent I should wait for the Police. I pointed out it was highly unlikely they'd attend to deal with an altercation with no collision and therefore no injury and that calling them for something so futile as a two drivers having words was wasting their time.
As I left I made a point of driving carefully as he'd also started taking photos of me and my car on his phone.

That's it. Which is why I'm so puzzled as to what it is I'm alleged to have done in that carpark.

I'd like to believe the complainant has made a less than accurate statement of events to the Police in an effort to be vexatious. I can't see how there could be any evidence, given nothing actually happened in the carpark, apart form words. But this seems rather a serious response given the facts.

Unless there is no actual evidence and this is simply how they make enquiries when someone goes to the trouble of giving a statement?

This post has been edited by WJS2: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 11:46
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The Rookie
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 11:51
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Unless there was damage to his car its very unlikely the Police want to do anything more than allow an exchange of details.

Its rather unusual for them to get involved in anything that is 'he says, she says' so either
1/ He has other witnesses or maybe a dashcam
2/ he has mates in the force
3/ He could convince the court an accident occurred within the definition of the statute, a collision between the two cars isn't needed.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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The Slithy Tove
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 12:36
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QUOTE (WJS2 @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 12:15) *
But this seems rather a serious response given the facts.

Probably because they use a one-size-fits-all process for any such incident which needs following up, including minor bumps in a car park to road rage and hit & run.
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WJS2
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 16:32
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So I called the person at the Police on the letter and had a chat. He explained the process:

Complainant makes complaint to Police by way of statement.

Police pass to Criminal Justice Unit for processing. From statement Police decide what are the laws most likely to have been broken should they later pursue a prosecution, and that's entered as the allegation on communication sent out to the registered keeper.

CJU then attempt to contact driver with news of allegation and the most likely laws that may have been broken should they later decide to pursue a prosecution, along with an S172. Alleged offender can also at that stage provide a summary of their side of the story should they choose to.

Case Manager then decides either there's no further action in which case a letter to that effect is sent to the alleged offender, or if they believe there is a reason to pursue the case, then that's the point at which they begin to gather evidence.

In my case, according to the file, the only witness currently is the complainant. No evidence has been provided apart from their statement, which surprisingly or unsurprisingly I suppose, bares no resemblance to the facts as I remember them. Something potentially quite serious has been alleged which absolutely didn't happen in any way. I will obviously deal with that when the opportunity arises. It's a small but important and entirely false allegation. But if indeed what the complainant has alleged had occurred, I can see why the Police would choose Dangerous or careless driving in their list of alleged offences.

According to the CJU a letter or a NIP at this stage alleging specific crimes have been committed doesn't mean there's evidence to that effect - It just means they've received an allegation by way of a statement and they're following it up.

Unless someone would like to challenge what I've been told today? It's always possible they've made a mistake in what they've told me.

I think it best to wait it for the S172 to arrive and see what happens next. Am I right in thinking I'll receive at some point full details of the allegation in writing?

Thanks again.

This post has been edited by WJS2: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 16:34
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andy_foster
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 19:44
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 12:51) *
Unless there was damage to his car its very unlikely the Police want to do anything more than allow an exchange of details.


Drugs are bad, m'kay?


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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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