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Where have all the old Pepipoo bruisers gone?, Threads merged
pentiumsarebest
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 20:43
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No disrespect is intended to contributers. This is a genuine puzzle for me.

It's been a while since I visited the Pepipoo forums. At least three years.

What a difference!

The advice largely on the speedings section largely seems to consist of "take the points and pay the fine." Whatever happened to the old Pepipoo bruisers who delighted in squeezing the law, suggesting when to go unsigned and challenging procedures? Are there no recent cases drivers can use?

The success list has it's last entry in 2012.

Perhaps there is another newer place the Bad Boys and Girls Club meet.
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post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 20:43
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southpaw82
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 21:31
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 20:47) *
QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 18:55) *
………... - that this has become a "Give In" forum, not a fight-back one - and pursue such distractions and trivia?

Carry on, if you must...


I must be a servile stooge, simply because I don't see that either the council or the PPC forums advocate giving in very often.
Dislike the speeding side if you will but sometimes the best service that can be given is to layout the options and repercussions of fighting back.
I am with SP regarding one thing that any regular poster should be aware of, it is not our money, licence or points at risk.
Poor advice can put someone else's at risk, even cast iron defences can be lost should the OP fail to understand a point or treat it like a silver bullet.

Thank you, my servile obsequious stooge.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 21:31
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 13:41) *
As you only have 2 previous threads its hard to follow how 5 or 6 times you were told you had no chance. Or are you admitting breaching the rules?

Also noting that SP never says anything of the sort anyway.



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Tank Engine
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 22:48
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Churchmouse wrote... (...)
and
The Rookie wrote... (...)

Usual, b-n stuff...

Rookie, Rulez are there to guide the wise - and to command fools.

Fredd, notorious for IP-snooping, has a pretty shrewd idea that my statement re the last 5-6 victories is da troof.

DancingDad - yes, you make the (only) justification possible. But it seeks to explain the attitude - not the change in attitude.

O Hippocrates H - I bleed for you. hca, I bow to you. bama - I know, read-only is best.

SP, who has (had?) a first-class noddle - Rather than snipe, just ftsoa hypothesise I'm more right, on this issue, than wrong. What's the fix, then?
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southpaw82
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 22:55
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QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:48) *
SP, who has (had?) a first-class noddle - Rather than snipe, just ftsoa hypothesise I'm more right, on this issue, than wrong. What's the fix, then?

I don’t mind hypothesising - in fact one occurred to me: even if you’re correct, what of it? You tell me what the fix is.


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Fredd
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:09
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QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:48) *
Fredd, notorious for IP-snooping, has a pretty shrewd idea that my statement re the last 5-6 victories is da troof.

Which presupposes that Fredd gives enough of a shit to even try to determine whether that statement is correct - which he doesn't. Frankly I'm mystified as to the point of this diatribe.


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DancingDad
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 09:46
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QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:48) *
...….DancingDad - yes, you make the (only) justification possible. But it seeks to explain the attitude - not the change in attitude.

O Hippocrates H - I bleed for you. hca, I bow to you. bama - I know, read-only is best...……..


Well, Hippo left for personal reasons, HCA and Bama still around, others like Bogsy have sadly fallen by the wayside, circumstances and times change, attitudes change with them.
In many cases, from necessity.
When I started, technical challenges on PCNs were common and often won. Councils have tidied up their wording and phrases like "when read as a whole" have crept into the lexicon of adjudicators.
Not much point in putting forward a challenge based on wording when even blatant issues (Reading Bus Lane PCN wording) get brushed aside.
Similar with signs and lines, time was when a broken line or missing T Bar at the end could win. Forget it now, substantial compliance is the "in term"
And don't forget people may drift away but others come along, some of them very good and are finding new issues to explore.
Some go out of their way to act as unofficial photo/video hosts, some specialise in TRO/TMOs, many contribute.
That the fire and brimstone beloved of Hippo may have abated and is missed does not mean that people no longer fight to win.
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Churchmouse
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 11:35
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QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:48) *
Churchmouse wrote... (...)

As I said, feel free to jump in with helpful advice any time. I'm sure it would be appreciated (or exposed as complete twaddle).

--Churchmouse
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The Rookie
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 19:02
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QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:48) *
Rookie, Rulez are there to guide the wise - and to command fools.

Indeed, but would everyone else agree with you if you claim to be wise?

At work people often tell me they are smart enough to break the rules, only for the subsequent results to prove them wrong!


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Tank Engine
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 20:32
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 09:46) *
Hippo left for personal reasons, HCA and Bama still around

I know about Hippo. The others feel the same, which maybe is why they contribute less nowadays.

QUOTE
When I started, technical challenges on PCNs were common and often won. Councils have tidied up their wording and phrases like "when read as a whole" have crept into the lexicon of adjudicators.
Not much point in putting forward a challenge based on wording when even blatant issues (Reading Bus Lane PCN wording) get brushed aside.
Similar with signs and lines, time was when a broken line or missing T Bar at the end could win. Forget it now, substantial compliance is the "in term"
And don't forget people may drift away but others come along, some of them very good and are finding new issues to explore.
Some go out of their way to act as unofficial photo/video hosts, some specialise in TRO/TMOs, many contribute.
That the fire and brimstone beloved of Hippo may have abated and is missed does not mean that people no longer fight to win.

Much reasonable stuff and truth there, DD. The battle is harder now, but maybe that's confusing cause and effect to a

But I know my last 5 (or 6) advice-seekings here were met with naysayers, voices of doom (you too on one of them, probably a couple of years ago).

"You've no chance", "you're lying", etc., but, for the umpteenth time, I won all of them.

One of them at what was previously PATAS against the nastiest, rudest, most indecent and diabolical adjudicator of the lot, who, far from even pretending to be neutral, argued and argued and said, in almost those words, that since I was intelligent enough to have concocted something, I therefore must have concocted it, while steadfastly refusing to take into account sins of commission and omission by the enforcing authority which were circumstantial (one of them, strongly so) in my favour. They had video evidence which would have exonerated me but just ignored my repeated requests for it. I kept my cool while he was shouting or ranting - there were spurts throughout the half an hour it took - then asked if he had finished, asked him whether he was, despite the evidence to the contrary, in full possession of his senses, and enquired what the Chief Adjudicator or a Judge would make of his carrying-on as captured by the tape-recorder, and his refusal to draw any inference from gaping holes in the Council's version, while casting aspersions on me. My record, unlike that of the Council which Hippo and I had identified was one of the worst in the region in terms of bringing forward meritless cases, was unblemished. I added it was not my fault his legal career ended with him not even making a Parking Tickets Judge, but he was unlikely to obtain the professional help he so needed from among his victim motorists. Unsurprisingly, he curtly ordered me out and I was already preparing my appeal when, after 5 minutes, I was summoned back in, and, with a further discourtesy by him, had his ruling read out to me from the screen. Such was his fury that he couldn't bring himself to look at me when telling me he'd found in my favour. I laughed openly at the plonker, hoping that if goaded he might swing for me or swear, and I might have then had the dirty swine done for assault, making up a little bit for all the poor decent motorists he's harassed and harangued for years.

Hey, but knowledgeable fighters like me are now unwelcome in PePiPoo. Instead we have rookies sniping from the sidelines while white flags are fluttering from every available aperture and sphincter. smile.gif

That's what your attitudes have contributed to, Masters of the Universe who run the show here. I smell a ban coming, two sets of trigger fingers are itching. Truth isn't welcome here.

I will continue to use PePiPoo, but not to guide me further than alerting me about possible pitfalls, and maybe as a ready reference about developments.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 19:02) *
QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:48) *
Rookie, Rulez are there to guide the wise - and to command fools.

Indeed, but would everyone else agree with you if you claim to be wise? At work people often tell me they are smart enough to break the rules, only for the subsequent results to prove them wrong!

TL; DR
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seank
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 21:12
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I had to sit in the court for almost 6 hours, listening to Nick Freeman helping David Beckham.
I have no axe to grind here, as I was helped by this Forum a decade or so ago.
Please answer me an honest question:

Poster Dave B.
Newbie. No previous posts.

I have received an NIP from my vehicle loan company. I apparently exceeded the speed limit. There is photographic evidence, they say.
I am not the registered keeper.
I asked for photos to identify the driver, and they clearly show that it's me. I know it was me, actually. I like speed and have been prosecuted before and have another NIP for speeding in the same vehicle, to be heard later.
What should I do, please?

How would people here reply? Would Mr. Dave get a Fightback response or a roll-over response?

Fightback, my arse.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 21:22
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QUOTE (seank @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 22:12) *
Poster Dave B.
Newbie. No previous posts.

I have received an NIP from my vehicle loan company. I apparently exceeded the speed limit. There is photographic evidence, they say.
I am not the registered keeper.
I asked for photos to identify the driver, and they clearly show that it's me. I know it was me, actually. I like speed and have been prosecuted before and have another NIP for speeding in the same vehicle, to be heard later.
What should I do, please?

How would people here reply? Would Mr. Dave get a Fightback response or a roll-over response?

Fightback, my arse.

What would you tell him to do?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 21:36
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Had the afore mentioned Dave come here with the scenario you put, I am sure the advise would be take it on the chin. Had all the information been presented to the members here then I am equally sure that Gidden would have been quoted and that a defence is viable.


I am also sure he would have been advised of the potential pitfalls, and the high cost of failure. as it happens that cost in the case you speak of would be negligible, but for the average man in the street take it on the chin would be the fairest advice.


Of course the average man would not have access to the head office at AM to discover that the original NiP was served late would he


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seank
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 22:25
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 22:36) *
Had the afore mentioned Dave come here with the scenario you put, I am sure the advise would be take it on the chin. Had all the information been presented to the members here then I am equally sure that Gidden would have been quoted and that a defence is viable.


I am also sure he would have been advised of the potential pitfalls, and the high cost of failure. as it happens that cost in the case you speak of would be negligible, but for the average man in the street take it on the chin would be the fairest advice.


Of course the average man would not have access to the head office at AM to discover that the original NiP was served late would he

I presume AM is the Kuwaiti-owned Investment Dar.
I am not a director of that company.
Why would the owner of a vehicle (my company) make any difference to an authority delivering an NIP on time, or late, please?
Could you, kindly, answer the question that we are raising? What advice would you give this newbie, versus the result I saw, in person? Please, if you don't mind.
Tell me then, what is the use of this forum, in such cases.
Many thanks,
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Fredd
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 22:54
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QUOTE (Tank Engine @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 21:32) *
I smell a ban coming, two sets of trigger fingers are itching. Truth isn't welcome here.

You're going to have to try harder, I'm afraid. Abuse will do it, bad advice will do it, but simple trolling like yours doesn't qualify.


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southpaw82
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 23:10
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QUOTE (seank @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 23:25) *
Why would the owner of a vehicle (my company) make any difference to an authority delivering an NIP on time, or late, please?
Could you, kindly, answer the question that we are raising? What advice would you give this newbie, versus the result I saw, in person? Please, if you don't mind.
Tell me then, what is the use of this forum, in such cases.
Many thanks,

You haven’t answered my question though - what would you do?

I suspect the answer you’re looking for is “advise them to check when the NIP was served”. I’ve seen that advice given often enough, such as here, here and here. If that’s not the answer you’re looking for then what is?


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Tank Engine
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 23:46
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You asked a very pertinent question. We both know the answer. As to your secondary Q:

QUOTE (seank @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 22:25) *
Tell me then, what is the use of this forum, in such cases.
Many thanks,

At last, a question I can answer easily.

Its original functions shortly after the start of the new millennium were the dissemination of information, discussion of strategy, helping those in need.

For this reason, Fredd had my 100% support back 15 years ago or maybe even longer. Especially when there were some direct attempts to intimidate him by those who, for the obvious reason, didn't want PePiPoo to exist. I was (still am) grateful he, and another, started the whole thing up. At that time, southpaw was an unknown, but soon became known as a very sensible and knowledgeable contributor. That both were and are dead honest was a plus.

But thanks partly to the vaguely dictatorial attitude of Fredd, whose ego was IMO weak from the start, and southpaw, who has most assuredly deteriorated in terms of both temper and general affability once the Nuke Button was placed in his northpaw, the old dynamic deteriorated too. It discouraged truly knowledgeable folk from giving their time as freely as they'd hitherto done.

To give a trivial example we have a "science expert" or three whose knowledge of the relevant science is good and usually more than adequate but markedly inferior to mine (unsurprising, if you saw my cv, but given the atmosphere, I'll be b*ggered if I provide even a snippet). And I've got a lot better at the relevant law too, thanks to learning from about a half dozen including, naturally, SP, a star in this area.

The fact that we have quite a bunch of brown-nosers around, several prominent in this thread, and possessed of limited cranial power (deductive, inferential, inductive, whatever), has perhaps deluded the Supreme Powers that they are performing well. Evry fule kno that you learn more from criticism than from praise, especially when its praise from the lower end of the developmental scale.

***************
So, the only non-entertainment function the forum still provides is a place for you to check what holes may be picked in what course you intend to take. Rarely does it help in pro-actively suggesting what that optimal action is. So it only really helps those who are already somewhat or nearly there and who have the will to do battle.
If educating fules, most wot cant even speel, is your think that's another fn.
***************

Of course, happy exceptions occur - all the time.

As it happens, I know Mr Loophole (NF) slightly. Of course he occasionally looks in here, for much the same reasons that I do. Three years ago we agreed that PePiPoo has gone to the dawgs.

When your only tool is a ban-hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Ban people only for extreme rudeness, repeated trolling or endangering forum and owner safety (PCOJ encouragement and the like). Don't ban people because they trigger your inferiority complexes. What next? Block the onion-s? I have SSH access to potentially millions of open servers which haven't yet made the blacklists.

Years ago, using cyber-skills you lot lack (anti-spidering measures were already in place), I captured the whole of the statutory registers for PATAS and TPT - since the Searches there are near useless. Still have it, can do keyword searches in a millisecond from anywhere within the ratio decidendi.

I can smell that ban coming. lol.

Mr Rookie, I made my first "M" when I was 24 and when an "M" meant much more than it does now. And I'm a lot older than that now. So your attempted flea stings provide me with chucklefodder, nowt else. You're about as scary as Swoop or the parking attendant or the old sarge. Keep at it if it rocks your boat. You lot are the trolls. I'm not.
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henrik777
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 06:20
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Nobody misses jeffreyarcher or mentions Andy ?

You're crap, no we're not, yes you are, no we're not, my dads bigger than your dad, no he's not wacko.gif
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bargepole
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 06:42
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To answer the original question, "Where have all the old Pepipoo bruisers gone?", I for one am still here, having joined the forum in 2004.

Between 2004-2008, I was working for a firm which had 100+ drivers on the road, all covering high annual mileages, and with a consequent above average triggering of speeding NIPs.

Having successfully fought my own NIP in court, I took it upon myself to become something of an expert on the relevant law, and ended up helping others to fight theirs, up to and including going to court with them as a McKenzie Friend.

My record in that area was 20 wins out of 24 cases, all of which were reported on this forum, as I'm sure Fredd or SP can confirm (some are in the paid-subscription Bad Boyz and Girlz section).

The reasons for winning were many and various, including:

NIP served out of time
Secondary check invalid (GATSO)
Uncertainty about driver's identity (the Hamilton defence)
Failure of CPS to respond to disclosure of evidence request
Failure of CPS to produce witness at trial
Video evidence (LTI 20:20) shows incorrect operation of device
General incompetence of CPS prosecutor

Since then, and as confirmed by an old family friend who is a recently retired chairman of the local Magistrates, the CPS have sharpened up their act, and while it is still possible to fight on any of the above grounds, the risks, and possible penalties if you lose, are much greater.

Any advice given to new posters must, therefore, be mindful of the fact that it is their hard-earned at risk, not mine.

-------

On Council parking, I don't profess to have any particular expertise in that area, but it certainly appears that 'substantial compliance' rather than 'strict compliance' has ruled out a number of previous challenges which may have succeeded on procedural grounds.

-------

However, since around 2012/13, the landscape on Pepipoo has changed dramatically, and by far the busiest section on the forum is the Private Parking Tickets sub-forum.

Such is the greed and incompetence of the parking firms, and the grubby solicitor firms who support them, that almost any PCN can be challenged, and with a decent defence these robber barons can be seen off in court.

I've personally represented dozens of motorists as a Lay Representative in small claims hearings, with a success rate to date of 77%.

-------

So in summary, we haven't all gone away, it's just that the battleground has changed, and as always you have to pick your battles - some are worth fighting, others less so.


--------------------
We'll fight them on the roads, we'll fight them in the courts, and we shall never, ever, surrender
Cases Won = 20 (17 as McKenzie Friend) : Cases Lost = 4. Private Parking tickets ignored: 3. Paid: 0.
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cp8759
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 10:47
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QUOTE (bargepole @ Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 07:42) *
On Council parking, I don't profess to have any particular expertise in that area, but it certainly appears that 'substantial compliance' rather than 'strict compliance' has ruled out a number of previous challenges which may have succeeded on procedural grounds.

I'm not so sure, if you look in the council thread there's a sticky with a link to a PCN flaws database, which I made specifically because there are so many flaws in so many councils' PCNs that I couldn't keep track of them in my head any more.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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