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PCN 46: Stopped where prohibited
Zeetopchoice
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 15:00
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Dear All, I was involved in a non fault accident on 13th January and the only safe place to park for exchanging details and not cause obstruction to other road users was after the red route in a clearway before a coach parking bay. Please advise if I will be able to challenge this ticket on basis of mitigating circumstances.

Location on Google Maps: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4954835,-...6384!8i8192

Ticket and accident details:
https://ibb.co/T0K2BFj
https://ibb.co/qNzTZsg
https://ibb.co/Kqmp5hp
https://ibb.co/P6KxhtX

Any help to challenge this PCN successfully will be really helpful.

Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by Zeetopchoice: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 18:24
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post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 15:00
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Incandescent
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 17:29
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Mitigating circumstances is entirely at the discretion of the council, so they'll inevitably refuse them, (they are greedy for your money !), you need something much stronger.

The law is that if you could not proceed due to circumstances beyond your control the PCN must be cancelled. The law also is that you must stop after an accident and if necessary exchange details of the drivers and their insurance. It will be in the law somewhere, and 'CP8759' no doubt knows where ! Don't pay until a considered view of your circumstances has been looked at here and advice given on whether to pay or appeal.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 17:30
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Neil B
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 18:05
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 17:29) *
The law is that if you could not proceed due to circumstances beyond your control the PCN must be cancelled. The law also is that you must stop after an accident and if necessary exchange details of the drivers and their insurance.

+1
I think that's the way to look at it; the two go together.
And it isn't mitigation so any reps should not describe it as such.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 18:16
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QUOTE (Zeetopchoice @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 15:00) *
on 13th December

PCN says January???


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Zeetopchoice
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 18:24
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 18:16) *
QUOTE (Zeetopchoice @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 15:00) *
on 13th December

PCN says January???


Sorry I am still living in December. lolz
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cp8759
post Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 22:30
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 17:29) *
It will be in the law somewhere, and 'CP8759' no doubt knows where !

Yes, I do biggrin.gif

Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988

170 Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents.
(1)This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place, an accident occurs by which—

(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused—
(i) to a vehicle other than that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road [F3or place] in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.

(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

(3) If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

(4) A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.


No Traffic Management Order can require you to commit a criminal offence so in the circumstances you describe, no contravention occurred providing you moved off once details had been exchanged.

For now I would simply call TFL and ask for the video, TFL will send a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold in the meantime. The DVD might also be of interest to your insurance company.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Zeetopchoice
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 10:22
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Thanks everyone for you help and suggestions.

What option shall I choose to appeal?



I have following options to choose from:

- The Contravention did not Occur.

- The Traffic Order was invalid.

- I was not the owner/keeper at the time of the Contravention

- The Vehicle has been taken without my consent

- The Penalty has been paid in full, or has been paid at the reduced amount within the specified period

- The Penalty Charge exceeds the applicable amount.

- We are a Hire Firm and have supplied the name of the hirer.

- There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the Enforcement Authority

- Any mitigating circumstances you wish to raise

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 22:30) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 17:29) *
It will be in the law somewhere, and 'CP8759' no doubt knows where !

Yes, I do biggrin.gif

Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988

170 Duty of driver to stop, report accident and give information or documents.
(1)This section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place, an accident occurs by which—

(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused—
(i) to a vehicle other than that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road [F3or place] in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.

(2) The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

(3) If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

(4) A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.


No Traffic Management Order can require you to commit a criminal offence so in the circumstances you describe, no contravention occurred providing you moved off once details had been exchanged.

For now I would simply call TFL and ask for the video, TFL will send a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold in the meantime. The DVD might also be of interest to your insurance company.



This is really helpful and I highly appreciate your time.

The accident happened at the junction as shown in the picture below. The other driver called Police and they advised us to move on a side to exchange details instead of blocking the junction. Do I still request for video from TFL or just challenge the ticket with facts?

https://ibb.co/9TpxxbS
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rosturra
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:23
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QUOTE (Zeetopchoice @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 15:00) *
Dear All, I was involved in a non fault accident on 13th January


QUOTE (Zeetopchoice @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 10:22) *
Do I still request for video from TFL...?


Definitely ask for the video. Ask for the previous 5 minutes (or whatever) as well. I don't know if they allow this but don't ask don't get.

As well as the PCN, it may help you prove the non fault aspect of your accident, and prevent the insurance companies doing a knock-for-knock.
Might lessen your insurance premiums too if you can demonstrate it was a no fault accident.





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Zeetopchoice
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 17:44
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QUOTE (rosturra @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 11:23) *
QUOTE (Zeetopchoice @ Sat, 18 Jan 2020 - 15:00) *
Dear All, I was involved in a non fault accident on 13th January


QUOTE (Zeetopchoice @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 10:22) *
Do I still request for video from TFL...?


Definitely ask for the video. Ask for the previous 5 minutes (or whatever) as well. I don't know if they allow this but don't ask don't get.

As well as the PCN, it may help you prove the non fault aspect of your accident, and prevent the insurance companies doing a knock-for-knock.
Might lessen your insurance premiums too if you can demonstrate it was a no fault accident.


Just requested the video and it should be with me in next 14 days and ticket will be on hold as well.

Thanks for all your help.
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cp8759
post Fri, 24 Jan 2020 - 22:02
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If the other driver called the police, do you have the CAD number? If not, try and get hold of it. The non-15p a call number for the MET is 020 7230 1212.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 10:32
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The old TfL protocols suggest that reps should be accepted under Cancellation Code C111A - Required by Law to stop.

Mick
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