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Scamera Limehouse tunnel, want to be a bit awkward
Pianolegs
post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 07:27
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2 nights back I was snapped (2 flashes) in the Limehouse Link Tunnel in London. I was doing about 35-37mph in the ridiculously low 30 limit (dual carrigeway, good visibility).

I realise there's probably no way of avoiding the NIP dropping through my letter box soon, but in view of the draconian limit and enforcement I'd rather like to make them work a bit for their 60 quid and 3 points. What steps would you recommend for this, obviously without unduly naffing them off and making it worse for me? I don't have the stomach for a court appearance as I do accept that I am actually guilty, but would like to put up a little resistance at least.

I know I can send back unsigned, but elsewhere here that looks like it could land me in trouble, so am I right in thinking I can ask for the pictures? I think I saw somewhere else here that some authorities have refused...

Thanks in advance.
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post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 07:27
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nemo
post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 07:32
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QUOTE (Pianolegs @ Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 07:27) *
I know I can send back unsigned, but elsewhere here that looks like it could land me in trouble, so am I right in thinking I can ask for the pictures? I think I saw somewhere else here that some authorities have refused...

If you returned a nomination of yourself as the driver but left it unsigned, you would be liable to be prosecuted for failing to provide driver details. This carries 6 points and a fine of £300-£400 upon conviction, not to mention court costs, the £15 Victim Support Surcharge and likely higher insurance premiums.

If a NIP does arrive, there's nothing to stop you from asking for photos, albeit that the SCP will be under no obligation to provide them. Most success seems to be had by asking for any pictires which might assist with identification of the driver, as opposed to submitting a request for 'evidence' or 'proof'.

This post has been edited by nemo: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 08:43
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Pianolegs
post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 08:39
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QUOTE (nemo @ Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 07:32) *
If a NIP does arrive, there's nothing to stop you from asking for photos, albeit that the SCP will be under obligation to provide them. Most success seems to be had by asking for any pictires which might assist with identification of the driver, as opposed to submitting a request for 'evidence' or 'proof'.

Mmm, thanks for the wisdom Nemo.

Do you mean the SCP are under "no" obligation to send photos? I actually doubt there's any identifying photos anyway as it's a double flash "behind you" camera, so no pics of the driver, and I suspect they would think that should be obvious to me having been snapped there.
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nemo
post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 08:45
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QUOTE (Pianolegs @ Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 08:39) *
Do you mean the SCP are under "no" obligation to send photos?

Yes, apologies - was still a bit bleary eyed.. wink.gif Corrected now.

QUOTE (Pianolegs @ Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 08:39) *
I actually doubt there's any identifying photos anyway as it's a double flash "behind you" camera, so no pics of the driver, and I suspect they would think that should be obvious to me having been snapped there.

Agreed, but it doesn't necessarily prevent them from sending the pics out anyway, particularly if they believe the request is genuine.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 10:03
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To make their life harder, if you get a NIP< reply naming the driver (yourself) in a letter with all the details requested, this will make it harder for them to read the details off and enter onto their 'system'.

Simon


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Faraway
post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 11:24
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You might want to write to them asking for information under the Freedom of Information Act certain questions pertaining to that camera.

Examples - How many speed related accidents occured in the tunnel before the camera was installed and afterwards
What proportion of drivers live within 20 miles of the tunnel in other words what proportion of local drivers are caught.
I am sure you could ask a few more if you think hard enough. It wont get your £60 back but at least you'll get something for it and be a bit awkward.
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oldstoat
post Thu, 21 Jan 2010 - 19:45
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usigned does not work in England unfortunately only in Scotland


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Pianolegs
post Fri, 22 Jan 2010 - 23:29
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Thanks to you all, some nice ideas there, and some wise words.... I'll see what I can do to make them work for it.
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4by4
post Sat, 23 Jan 2010 - 11:01
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Not meaning to thread hijack but what is the legality of writing numbers out in full when replying in a letter?

i.e. one two three instead of 123 etc.

I know this would peeve me off trying to enter the data off a letter onto a computer. There are a few that could be done - reference numbers, reg numbers, driver numbers. - and i bet the scamaratti are not exactly geniuses!
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Pete D
post Sat, 23 Jan 2010 - 11:04
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IF you want to ask for pictures do that first and nothing else. If you ask for more you are likely to get nothing. Once you have the photo's then you can take it furture. Pete D

This post has been edited by Pete D: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 - 11:05
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nemo
post Sat, 23 Jan 2010 - 11:31
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Jones v DPP [2004] provides the authority that a letter which contains all of the information requested (and is signed) satisifies the requirements of s.172 RTA 1988.

If you do receive a NIP / s.172 and you elected to submit the driver information other than on their pre-printed form, it may be worth noting that Dr Jones wrote 'Please see covering letter enclosed' across the front of the s.172 form and then attached / enclosed this with his letter.
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RD400E
post Sat, 23 Jan 2010 - 11:36
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Do you have to reply in English? That would really peev them off but likely to be inflamatory so I guess not!
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Glacier2
post Sat, 23 Jan 2010 - 13:28
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There would be nothing they could do if you were to reply in Welsh. They may have to send your letter to Cardiff to translated. biggrin.gif
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