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WF High Road Yellow Box Fine, Receiving PCN when car is still moving
Therightmistake
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 11:18
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Hello!

I have decided (just before clicking send payment) that I will contest a PCN given.


I have a good idea that there is over 50% chance of winning an appeal, but unfortunately just need a little help in making sure I say the right things.


Event: Coming up to a traffic light - yellow box - traffic light situation. It looked as if there was enough room to clear the box, so I made my journey across. It turned out it was a little tight so I kept moving ever so slightly forward and before getting to the back bumper of the other car the traffic started moving again.


So am I right to appeal that within the space of 7 seconds (time frame between photos) I was still moving and had space to do so, so am not 'stopping in the box as my exit is still clear? The CCTV video also shows this.


Any advice on a few sentences I can put together would be most grateful.


Below should be a picture of the PCN and photos from the website link. Having a bit of trouble uploading the video.







This post has been edited by Therightmistake: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 11:39
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post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 11:18
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Neil B
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 11:24
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Show the vid.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Therightmistake
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 11:41
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 12:24) *
Show the vid.


Hi, What is the best site to upload it on as my current photo IMG hosting site isn't uploading it.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 11:54
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Youtube, Vimeo, Flickr.

Or convert to a GIF and put on Imgur etc and post BBcode link.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 11:55
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Therightmistake
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 12:58
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 12:54) *
Youtube, Vimeo, Flickr.

Or convert to a GIF and put on Imgur etc and post BBcode link.



Thanks!

https://imgur.com/a/5rm89BE


This post has been edited by Therightmistake: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 13:01
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Therightmistake
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 13:25
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Provisional drafted representation.

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your letter dated 08/10/2018 in relation to PCN: XXXXXX.

I am writing to you to make a representation against this notice.

I found the images and CCTV useful. I would like to refer you to the video linked with the alleged PCN as it is noticeable that the vehicle is still moving and before filling the clear exit path the traffic continues as well as the moving vehicle.

I am at a loss as to why the alleged contravention:31 has been issued as the vehicle has entered the box and cleared the box junction without stopping.

Can you provide any other evidence to support your alleged PCN? If not, I would appreciate confirmation that the appeal has been accepted and no further action will be taken.

I look forward to your response.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 13:44
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Well it's in the bounds of being minimal stopping.



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 13:45
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Therightmistake
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 14:06
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 14:44) *
Well it's in the bounds of being minimal stopping.


You can see my wheels still moving, albeit slow. According to laws of physics I haven't stopped.

Do you think I have a case?
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stamfordman
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 14:27
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I think you were stopped for about 3-4 secs but it's worth having a go. See what others say.

it's your right to put this in front of the adjudicator of course but it would be at £130.
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Therightmistake
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 15:03
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 15:27) *
I think you were stopped for about 3-4 secs but it's worth having a go. See what others say.

it's your right to put this in front of the adjudicator of course but it would be at £130.


Hi Stamfordman,

Thanks for your advice thumbsup.gif
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hcandersen
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 16:54
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So, do you say you didn't actually stop, when the video shows you did, or acknowledge that you stopped momentarily and then inched forward and then IMO stopped again momentarily.

You and the adj have the video. The operator made a hash of focusing so that in the video your car is stopped momentarily and nominally which is not a contravention then the camera focuses on your reg plate and shows you inching forward. It does not evidence how long you were stopped in the first instance or in total because the camera loses sight of the car or pans away, the operator no doubt thinkng they've got the goods on you at that point,

Some adjs take a hard line - looking at the cumulative effect - and success is not guaranteed. But what I am certain about is that you would put their backs up if on the one hand you asked them to ignore what the video shows to be a fact i.e. you stopped, and on the other to focus closely on every frame of the same video which shows you moving.

I entered the junction having reckoned that the car just outside the box would move before I reached it. I was still confident - because I could see the line of traffic well ahead - even as far as halfway across. But having miscalculated I had to put my thinking cap on and slow to a snail's pace. I think I stopped momentarily while managing this transition, but this could not have been for more than a second, literally, after which I inched forward progressively.

Question: is your car manual or auto? If manual then I think this would lend support to the 'transition' phase because in your approach you were probably in too high a gear to inch forward without changing down, stopping momentarily (IMO your car hasn't got the necessary torque to move at a snail's pace in anything but first or maybe second gear).

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 16:56
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