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TOR - 96 in a 70
Naztradamus
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 19:38
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Hi All,

I just wanted some clarification please on the below.

I was pulled over today for doing a 96 in a 70. I was given a breatherliser and swab test which were both negative. The officer showed me that he had recorded my speed using a laser speed detector (looked like a pair of binoculars). I accepted the offence and know it was a lapse of judgment on my behalf so totally inexcusable. The part which has me confused is that he told me I’d receive 3 points and £100 fine for the offence. I already have 6 points and he joked that I’d be on my last strike after this offence so I know I didn’t mishear him. He printed off the TOR and said I would receive a letter in 10-14 days. I asked him again if he was sure it would only be 3 points as when I initially saw the speed on his detector my first reaction was 6 points/ban and court summons. He said no it would only be 3 points and that I would need to be 30mph over the speed limit for it to be any more.

Is this correct? I’ve looked around online and 96 falls into court summons territory but not sure why he would lie to me? This was Glouctershire county (in case that is relevant).

Any clarification or advice would be much appreciated. My gut feeling is that I will be looking at a court summons with a potential ban but I’m praying/hoping the officer was telling the truth and it won’t be as severe.


Thanks in advance.
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post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 19:38
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 20:23
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The CTO process the TOR. That excess would normally be processed at court as you say. It's not unusual for some officers to not fully understand the thresholds.

That excess will be 4-6 points, fine of 66% of weekly earnings, costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).

It should be 5 points which will bring you close to totting - but 6 points is also possible.

However, if a CoFP is sent grab it with both hands!

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 20:23


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Naztradamus
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 20:44
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Many thanks for your reply.

You have confirmed what I thought would be the outcome. I’m a bit worried as I had to attend court last year (around May time) for doing 88 in a 50 which I received 6 points for and a fine. It sounds worse than it was as it was a 70 which becomes 50 for a few hundred meters and then back to 70. I’m thinking they will look at that and think “he hasn’t learnt his lesson so we should ban him” or do they not take exisisting offences into consideration?

Do you think I would need to attend court with a good defence ie exceptional hardship route to avoid a ban?
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NewJudge
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 20:58
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QUOTE (Naztradamus @ Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 20:44) *
I’m thinking they will look at that and think “he hasn’t learnt his lesson so we should ban him” or do they not take exisisting offences into consideration?

Do you think I would need to attend court with a good defence ie exceptional hardship route to avoid a ban?

Yes they do take previous offences into consideration - especially one that occurred so recently (assuming the matter goes to court, that is). Having said that, the court is unlikely to depart from the guidelines. These cover speeds between 91 and 100mph for which the penalty is either a ban of between 7 and 28 days or 4-6 points. My guess is that an immediate ban would not be considered and that you will get five points. (The speed is smack in the middle of the range so that should attract a penalty in the middle of the range).

To be on the safe side you should have an "exceptional hardship" argument prepared (if you intend to make one) and you should not drive to court as any ban is immediate. The court may view 5pts as a good penalty because it will keep you on your toes for a couple of years. You will have to have a very well controlled right foot until May 2021. If the matter goes to court be prepared for it to take up to six months (or a little more) from the date of the offence to get your paperwork.
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 21:04
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QUOTE (Naztradamus @ Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 20:44) *
Do you think I would need to attend court with a good defence ie exceptional hardship route to avoid a ban?

Exceptional hardship isn't a 'defence' itself. If you tot then you will have the opportunity to submit an EH plea. How the points were gained is irrelevant and the plea is considered on it's own merits - with the impact on others carrying more weight.

However, you are likely to receive a SJPN, i.e. a postal plea. You can try this route and see if they issue 5 points but they may well send it for a court hearing (to consider a ban/plea). Alternatively, you can simply ask for the matter to be heard at court.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 21:04


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Naztradamus
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 09:17
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Thanks for all yours replies - much appreciated.

At least now I have a better idea of what to expect.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 09:50
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Please be aware that if (as is likely) it progresses to court then the Police have up to 6 months to commence proceedings (issue paperwork) and you may not receive it for a week or so after that, the Police often use most of that time.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Naztradamus
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 11:50
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So as I’ve been issued a TOR and a verbal NIP I shouldn’t expect to hear anything now apart from a COFP or court summons - is that correct?
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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 13:20
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Well a CoFP would be very unlikely, but yes.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Naztradamus
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 14:08
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Yeah I appreciate it’s very unlikely but just wanted to double check that there would be no further correspondence apart from that or a court summons.

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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Mar 2019 - 14:17
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Some forces do send a paper NIP even though it’s not required, so it’s not impossible you’ll get one.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Naztradamus
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:16
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Quick update - I received a CoFP in the post the very next morning with an offer of 3 points and £100 fine.

Naturally I signed, paid and returned the form the very same day.


Many thanks for everyone’s input and advice.
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Slapdash
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:32
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And sent your licence to where it is supposed to go ?
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666
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:33
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QUOTE (Naztradamus @ Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 17:16) *
Quick update - I received a CoFP in the post the very next morning with an offer of 3 points and £100 fine.

Naturally I signed, paid and returned the form the very same day.


Many thanks for everyone’s input and advice.

Did you also send your licence?
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Naztradamus
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 19:53
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Apologies - forgot to add in the most important part which was sending my licence.

You guys made me double check then lol
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Irksome
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 21:07
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May I enquire, how certain are you that the officer said 96? As the procedure followed would indicate 86 and that you have no 'course' option remaining?


--------------------
PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.

You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already.
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Naztradamus
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 08:18
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Very certain - my TOR also states 96mph on it.
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