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Parking Eye Fine
angrybutterfly
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 09:26
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Hello everyone, I need some help on what to do here please?

We visited the Wye Valley Visitor Centre in Ross on Wye on the 7th May. Paid £2 for 4hours parking starting at 10am until 14:00.

We visited the butterfly centre, had lunch and left at 14:17 not realising we had overstayed by 17 minutes.

We received a letter from Parking Eye about a week after this to state that we needed to pay a fine. My husband convinced me to ignore it and tore up the letter saying they cannot enforce it.
We received another "reminder" a week or so later and he did the same.

Today we have received the £100.00 fine from them and now I'm starting to worry that we should have appealed rather than ignored.

I agree with my husband that a £100 fine for 17 minutes overstay is not right but what do we do here?
I have seen a letter template online with an extra piece for appealing late and i have a bank statement showing payment to the butterfly house which I have inserted in the letter.

My question is, do I ignore this letter as my husband is still suggesting or do I reply with this template??
Many Thanks for your help on this, I did not need this stress today!

thank you everyone
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post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 09:26
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 11:31
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Of course they said that. They couldnt say anything else, could they?
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angrybutterfly
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 11:31
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Thank you.

I'm just not sure what to do to sort this. Am trying to get some photos of the signage as I read another user saying that it was not clear on the sign that time starts the moment you enter, and he won his appeal...

I have no clue how to word it or what not to say so I'm just trying to get as much info as possible.
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Jlc
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 11:35
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...but the route to play is that the ticket says the expiry time and your exit was within 10 minutes grace. No need to complicate it.

I suspect they'll play the too late to appeal and you're not having a POPLA code routine.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 11:45
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...do as above

At which point you then see if they take it further.
If theyre confident you will get a letter before claim, which you do not ignore.
If theyre not you will get EQuita debt collection letters, which you ignore
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angrybutterfly
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 11:47
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Ok so regarding the letter I send to Parking Eye

Is this any good? or do I need to take some bits out? I'm sorry Im asking so many questions, I'm stressing about not having much time to deal with this and having missed the appeal date! sad.gif


Dear Sir/Madam,
Re: Parking Charge Reference number xxx Vehicle registration:xxx
I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and have received the above demand from you.
My appeal on this matter is included below. I do not accept liability for the above parking charge and I have no intention of paying the money you have demanded. Although my appeal is being submitted late, should you decline my appeal I still request a POPLA code from you. To help facility an efficient resolution to this matter, I am willing to be provide you an undertaking to be bound by the decision of POPLA, thus guaranteeing that this case will not proceed to court.
I draw your attention to the Practice Direction requirement to utilise an appropriate form of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) before commencing court proceedings. In the circumstances of you not accepting my appeal, I invite you to refer this dispute to the Parking On Private Land appeals service (“POPLA”), which is the appropriate form of ADR set up by the parking industry for this precise situation.
Please note: not withstanding the fact that any decision of POPLA is legally binding on the parking company, and not the motorist, in the spirit of exploring an amicable resolution of this dispute, I am providing you an undertaking to be bound by the decision of POPLA, thus ensuring that this case will not proceed to court. If I lose the appeal, I agree to pay the original parking charge notice amount.
A referral to POPLA will avoid you incurring legal fees and expenses, and perhaps more importantly will reduce the burden on the court (which is the reason for this Direction). Please do not seek to rely on any POPLA deadlines as POPLA has confirmed that it does not impose any time limit on an appeal to POPLA, and all that is required is for your client to issue a POPLA code.
I remind you that a failure or refusal by you to agree to my offer of both parties abiding by a POPLA decision would be clear evidence of your client’s failure to mitigate its alleged loss.
If you reject my offer to refer this dispute to ADR and instead choose to issue court proceedings, I shall invite the court to stay the case and make an order referring the case to POPLA. Further I shall oppose any application for costs that your client may wish to make, owing to its failure to mitigate, and shall instead make an application for my own wasted costs according to the provisions of Schedule 4 of the Practice Direction and CPR 27.14.
In the meantime, and in the absence of a compliant Letter Before Claim, you should place a note on your file to the effect that this charge is disputed and your firm is required to cease and desist all further contact with me. For the avoidance of doubt, the same applies to any debt collection agency you may choose to instruct.
I dispute owing you any amount and deny all liability in this matter. Please accept this letter as a formal appeal under your appeals process.
The basis of my appeal is:
1. The amount you have claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss to either Parking Eye or the car park landowner.
2. The signs in your car park fail to comply with your Accredited Trade Association’s Code of Practice
3. No contract was formed with the driver due to the fact that your signs were was not sufficiently brought to the attention of the driver.
4. ParkingEye is not the landowner and therefore Parking Eye does not have the right to enter into a contract with a driver nor does Parking Eye have the right to bring a claim for trespass.
Please confirm in writing whether you accept my appeal and withdraw your demand. If you reject my appeal, please provide the following particulars:
1) The basis of your charge (i.e. contract breach, trespass or contractual fee).
• If you are alleging breach of contract, I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages you claim were suffered, and by whom, and how each particular loss arose.
• If you are alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the alleged perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
• If you alleging a “contractual fee” I request a VAT invoice from you and ask you to explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for that fee.
2) Please also advise the amount of money you would have received from the driver of my vehicle should the alleged contract have been met to your satisfaction.
3) Please advise the name and address of the landowner.
4) Please provide a POPLA code that allows me to appeal to POPLA.
The driver was visiting the Butterfly House at the car park and I have enclosed evidence of this visit.

If ParkingEye rejects my appeal: please do not contact me again with more demands as I deny owing Parking Eye any money and deny that any driver of my vehicle has entered into a contract with you. Any legal action you initiate against me will be defended.
Yours sincerely,



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Jlc
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 11:54
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I'm afraid you need to start from scratch. No need to stress or panic.

See what you can draft up, others will chip in. (I haven't got time right now but will assist too if I'm not beaten to it)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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angrybutterfly
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 14:54
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OK....
So I am being told on the MSE website to use this template and copy and paste it into the online appeal form for this PCN. Is this what I do, because it mentions nothing about the grace period etc. Their system shows the car entering at 10:04:52 and leaving at 14:17:35, my ticket shows purchase time 10:09 (for 4 hours). So clearly within the grace period both in and out. Not sure if I argue that at a later state or just say, I paid, and here is a copy of my ticket...

Re PCN number:

I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).

I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed unanimously: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.

Formal note:

Service of any rejection letter/POPLA code and/or legal documents by email is expressly disallowed. All responses to me from this point on, must be made by post. Regardless of any MCOL online/email system, service of any court claim must only be made by first class post to the latest address provided by me.

Yours faithfully,
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Jlc
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:10
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Templates will guarantee rejection - actually I think they'll simply tell you that you are out of time. I particularly like the bit about their signs fail the large lettering test as established in ParkingEye v Beavis - think about who you are telling this to!

They are a disgrace but telling them so without any actual good appeal point will encourage them further.

I'm aware on MSE they'll say that PE will recognise the template and quake in their boots and it works every time.

At the end of the day you can follow whichever forum advice you like. But ultimately it's up to them whether they issue a claim or not - which letter would you like the judge to see?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:07


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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angrybutterfly
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:21
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 16:05) *
Templates will guarantee rejection - actually I think they'll simply tell you that you are out of time. I particularly like the bit about their signs fail the large lettering test as established in ParkingEye v Beavis - think about who you are telling this to!

They are a disgrace but telling them so without any actual good appeal point will encourage them further.

I'm aware on MSE they'll say that PE will recognise the template and quake in their boots and it works every time.



Hmm ok so if i was to write in my own words I would say:

RE Parking Charge Notice ***

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and have received the above demand from you.
My appeal on this matter is included below. I do not accept liability for the above parking charge.

The named vehicle entered the site at 10:04 and a ticket was purchased at 10:09 which is a perfectly reasonable time frame. The ticket allowed parking on site for 4 hours. This makes the expiry 14:09. We left the premises at 14:17 which is 8 minutes past the expiry which is a reasonable time as should be allowed under BPA regulations of at least 10 minutes grace time either way. I attach a copy of the parking ticket along with an entry on my bank statement showing we were geniune customers of the Butterfly House.

I respectfully request you to withdraw this PCN based on the evidence I have provided.

Yours Sincerely

**

Is that any good or no? can I also say I have not received the previous letters??

This post has been edited by angrybutterfly: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:24
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Jlc
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:28
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QUOTE (angrybutterfly @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 16:21) *
Is that any good or no? can I also say I have not received the previous letters??

That's much better! We don't advocate lying...

Don't highlight the 'expiry', simply state that the vehicle exiting with the minimum 10 minutes grace period as defined by the BPA. (If you feel so inclined you can state it's a breach of the Code of Practice)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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angrybutterfly
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:39
Post #31


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Member No.: 98,539



QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 16:28) *
QUOTE (angrybutterfly @ Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 16:21) *
Is that any good or no? can I also say I have not received the previous letters??

That's much better! We don't advocate lying...

Don't highlight the 'expiry', simply state that the vehicle exiting with the minimum 10 minutes grace period as defined by the BPA. (If you feel so inclined you can state it's a breach of the Code of Practice)



Thank you, I have submitted the appeal via their website so will wait and see what the response is.
Thanks for your help.
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Jlc
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 15:54
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Cripes, you don't hang about...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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angrybutterfly
post Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 21:17
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Hello, just wanted to share my happy news!

I received an email back from Parking Eye today stating

"As a gesture of goodwill, we can confirm that this Parking Charge has now been
cancelled and there is no outstanding payment due. We understand that receiving a Parking Charge Notice may be inconvenient, however,
issuing Parking Charges for breaches of the parking terms and conditions at this car park
is necessary to ensure a better overall parking experience for all users of the facilities.
To avoid potential future inconvenience, we would kindly request you follow the parking
terms and conditions displayed on the signage throughout the car park.
Yours faithfully,
ParkingEye Team"

I think the letter was code for "Ah sh*t yeah you had ticket, you provided the evidence, you arrived and left within the 10 minutes grace period set out by the BPA so we arent going to take you to court because we would lose... "


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