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PCN and Car Pound, Car given a PCN and then towed away
Ambient111
post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 22:23
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Hi there! Any help would be much appreciated, however I only have until 18th November to appeal to the adjudicator!

On Sunday 01/09/2019, at approximately 8pm I parked as normal outside my residence and there was no suspended parking notice present. I would not have left the car there if there had been a parking suspension notice present. I left the car there all week because I get the train to work. I noticed on Friday 06/09/2019 that my car was no longer where I had parked it because of some road works. My car had been towed and I had to pay a total of £305 to get it out of the pound that evening (please see attachment_1 showing the breakdown and attached PCN). Unfortunately I did not know about this forum so I appealed with my email below:

[i]Re: PCN No: TT27893428 (combined total £305)

I wish to appeal and make representations against all of the penalty charges served upon me on the 6th September 2019 on the following grounds which are covered in further detail in this letter.

E) The place where the vehicle was at rest was not in a civil enforcement area for parking contraventions.

I arrived in my vehicle at the place of rest on Sunday 1st September 2019 at approximately 8pm. There were no suspended parking signs present that explained this parking space would become a suspended bay. The sign that can be seen on the attached picture was not present at the time of me bringing the vehicle to rest at this place. There was no reason for me to not park there and leave my car at rest.

G) There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the council (in accordance with the Traffic Management Act 2004, the General Regulations or the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007.

In addition to the Secretary of State’s statutory guidance the DfT published further guidance for the benefit of Local Authorities. This publication is known as the “Operational Guidance to Local Authorities” and this gives further clarification in regard to traffic signs.

8.35 Authorities should not issue PCNs when traffic signs or road markings are incorrect, missing or not in accordance with the TRO. These circumstances may make the Order unenforceable. If a representation against a PCN shows that a traffic sign or road marking was defective, the authority should accept the representation because the adjudicator is likely to uphold any appeal. An enforcement authority may be acting unlawfully and may damage its reputation if it continues to issue PCNs that it knows to be unenforceable.

For the reasons explained above I require the council to acknowledge their error and therefore cancel this penalty charge forthwith.
[/i]


The appeal has been rejected and they have provided a picture of my car in the space with what they claim to be a parking suspension notice (please see attachment_2). The picture is not dated and this does not prove that there was a suspended parking notice present when I parked there.

Please can anyone be of assistance with what I should do next?

Many thanks in advance!

This post has been edited by Ambient111: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 22:27
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Attachment_1.pdf ( 1.34MB ) Number of downloads: 23
Attached File  Attachment_2.pdf ( 542.75K ) Number of downloads: 33
 
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post Thu, 7 Nov 2019 - 22:23
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 10:44
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@hca
Thanks.
(f)that the penalty charge or other charge paid to secure the release of the vehicle exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case; or

(g)that there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority.


I believe (f) has precedence.

Mick
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cp8759
post Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 17:15
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You can file an appeal on as many grounds as are relevant, you only need one to win. There's no order of precedence as far as I'm aware.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Ambient111
post Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 18:13
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I'm a bit confused how I should appeal. Shall I just see what the adjudicator comes back with after appealing with no additional information? Or should I reference the previous cases similar to mine and the additional day storage?

Thanks!
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cp8759
post Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 19:58
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You misunderstand: the point of registering the appeal is twofold:

1) In a significant minority of cases, the council doesn't contest the appeal at which point any time and effort put into drafting an appeal becomes a waste of time
2) If the council does contest the case, it will put forward its evidence in an evidence pack, you gain a tactical advantage in seeing the evidence pack before you submit your appeal to the adjudicator. In this case, it is particularly important as we don't know if the council has any better quality pictures of the sign.

So, you register the appeal and wait and see what the council does next. As the council already has your money, it will almost certainly contest but at least then we'll have the benefit of being able to write the appeal with the full knowledge of what evidence the council has.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Ambient111
post Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 22:01
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Thanks @cp8759 and for everyone's input! I have lodged my appeal and will provide evidence at a later date. I will post on here again when I receive a response.

Thanks again for now!
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Ambient111
post Sat, 23 Nov 2019 - 07:39
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Hi all, please see below response from the environment and traffic adjudicator. I have until 11th December to submit any evidence (5 days before the case will come into the list for decision), however I will only receive a copy of the Enforcement Authority’s evidence directly from them at least three
days before the date the case comes into the list.

Thoughts?


London Borough of Tower Hamlets
(The Enforcement Authority)
Vehicle Registration Number: KB52AFV
Penalty Charge Notice(s): TT27893428

Thank you for your appeal which was received on 17th November 2019.

Your case will come into the list for decision on 16th December 2019. The actual date on which it will
be considered by an Adjudicator depends on the number of appeals awaiting decision. You will be
notified of the decision.

We have sent a copy of your appeal to the Enforcement Authority. The Adjudicator will determine your
case on the basis of the information which both you and the Enforcement Authority send in. You must
therefore ensure that you have sent everything you wish the Adjudicator to consider. The Adjudicator
cannot contact witnesses on your behalf. If you wish the Adjudicator to consider witness statements
you must obtain these yourself and send them to us. If you wish to add any further evidence to that
submitted with your Notice of Appeal, and you have been issued a verification code by the
Enforcement Authority, please upload your evidence via our website. If you do not have a verification
code, please send evidence to the address at the top of this letter. All evidence should be received by
us no later than 11th December 2019. Please quote your Case Reference in all correspondence.

You should receive a copy of the Enforcement Authority’s evidence directly from them at least three
days before the date the case comes into the list. If you require any further assistance, please contact
us as soon as possible, either by telephone or in writing using the contact details at the top of this
letter.

For further details of the appeal process and procedures please see the information on our website at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/environm...ors-your-appeal.

Case Management Team
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cp8759
post Sat, 23 Nov 2019 - 20:16
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In practice the authority only has 7 days from the date of that email to supply its evidence, see paragraph 3(3) here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3482/schedule/made

Nothing has changed, just post up the council evidence. Don't wait for the postal copy, check the "track you appeal" page on https://londontribunals.org.uk/ every couple of days, once the council submits its evidence you'll be able to download it and post it up on here.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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phantomcrusader
post Sun, 24 Nov 2019 - 01:26
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 23 Nov 2019 - 20:16) *
In practice the authority only has 7 days from the date of that email to supply its evidence, see paragraph 3(3) here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3482/schedule/made

Nothing has changed, just post up the council evidence. Don't wait for the postal copy, check the "track you appeal" page on https://londontribunals.org.uk/ every couple of days, once the council submits its evidence you'll be able to download it and post it up on here.


If I recall correctly, both tribunals "claim" to have issued a blanket direction under this regulation from the Schedule that allows councils longer than 7 days.

QUOTE
Miscellaneous powers of adjudicators

15.—(1) An adjudicator may, if he thinks fit—

(a)extend the time appointed by or under this Schedule for the doing of any act notwithstanding that the time appointed has expired;

This is why councils can now take their time in submitting evidence.
In London, is it still the case that what ever ground is filled out on the witness statement, a council is encouraged to serve a new NTO due to a general blanket tribunal direction?

This post has been edited by phantomcrusader: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 - 01:44
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cp8759
post Sun, 24 Nov 2019 - 02:08
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The tribunal administrative team might have done something to that effect, but there's been at least one adjudicator who has said no such blanket directions can be made and the whole thing is a load of bollocks. There is no legal basis for a blanket direction, the tribunal has no power to set up Practice Directions as if it were a court.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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hcandersen
post Sun, 24 Nov 2019 - 12:00
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The OP has the only evidence needed for the primary strand of appeal i.e. the receipt for removal of the vehicle, which shows the dates the vehicle was admitted to the pound and when payment was made. The period does not support the charges by virtue of not being in accordance with the Mayor's approved charges with which the authority are bound to comply.

..and the OP also disputes removal, but with less objective and hard evidence.

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Ambient111
post Yesterday, 12:08
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Hi all!

@cp8759 you were correct, the enforcing authority have already uploaded their evidence, however the files amount to nearly 21MB. Given the attachment limit of 1.95MB on this forum, How can I share these documents with this thread?

Thanks!
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stamfordman
post Yesterday, 12:34
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put it on google docs, dropbox or such like
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Ambient111
post Yesterday, 22:56
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Hi all again, please see below Dropbox link for the evidence submitted by the enforcing authority (I have removed my personal details for privacy):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2kr8zihzzauhl0u/Evidence.zip?dl=0

I have until 11th December to submit my evidence and appeal.

Thoughts?

Many thanks!
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PASTMYBEST
post Yesterday, 23:40
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What jumps out to me other than that they were not entitled to charge a storage fee of £40 so the whole process is flawed is that the PCN submitted is not a true copy of the one served


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