Ticket in residential area, Kensington and Chelsea |
Ticket in residential area, Kensington and Chelsea |
Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 19:47
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Dear Sir/Madam,
I parked my car on Hollywood Road in the borough of Kensington and Chelsea at 15:15, a ticket was issued to me on the grounds of ‘12U parked in a residents without a valid permit’ at 1531. I assumed this area was safe to park because there was a pay and display sign right near my car which I promptly did by phoning the number and parked for an hour. However, according to the warden this is an area which is fully resident until 10pm. Below are the ticket and the pics which the warden took. Below are the pics that i took... This post has been edited by zee aze: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 19:49 -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Sat, 1 Jun 2019 - 19:47
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Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 12:58
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 546 Joined: 31 Aug 2015 From: 19 Riverbank Member No.: 79,151 |
I do agree with HCA that the sign is not in the correct and sensible place for this reason: I consider it entirely feasible that the sign went unseen and having noticed the much more prominent sign you (or anyone else come to that) would not have imagined that the prominent arrow pointing in the direction of the restriction applies to only one bay with nothing equally prominent to inform you otherwise, and so promptly paid and went on your way. Perhaps the double-dashed lines were also not readily visible.
-------------------- I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 22:22
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Hi Guys
this is the response, please feel free to critique before I post up.... ------------------------ Dear Sir/Madam I’m writing following receipt of your letter dated 1 August 2019. I am appealing against the ‘Notice to Owner’ that has been sent, and I outline my reasons below: 1. The relevant sign is placed obscurely On Hollywood Road, as with every road, the parking restrictions are clearly visible and attached to a tall post at a height that isn’t obstructed. However, the relevant sign that applied to where I parked my car was positioned at a much lower height. According to the picture taken by the traffic warden, the relevant sign is placed on a resident’s home railings and at knee-high level Naturally, where this sign is attached so low down and all the others are high on a post, every driver will look at the taller post as this is the only sign that is clearly visible. The relevant sign has been placed in a manner that is extremely difficult to notice and see – and is also an anomaly compared with the other parking restrictions which are on a tall post. Please see picture 1, which supports this point: 2. The location of the relevant sign is obstructed The location of the relevant sign is placed within absolute proximity to a very large, wide and tall white pillar, which forms part of the entrance to a resident’s home. Because of its position next to the white pillar, the sight of the relevant sign is obstructed. If you are facing the door to the home where the sign is attached, my vehicle was parked to the left. I had parked there because I was taking my pregnant wife to Chelsea and Westminster hospital. This means, that I had to walk past the pillar to reach my destination. When walking along the pavement, the relevant sign is definitely not visible as the white pillar blocks its view. Furthermore, because the relevant sign is attached so low on the railing it does not naturally fall within a line of sight – meaning, one would have to look down to see the sign. One would not expect to see a sign as important as this one to be located so lower down on a resident’s railings. A sign as important as this needs to be placed in a prominent manner, within an easy line of sight and at a high place so it is not obstructed – such as on a tall post, and away from the large, wide and tall white pillar. Additionally, this road is very busy as it is located opposite the hospital, and off a busy high street. On the occasion when I parked my car, it was unsurprisingly congested with large groups of people walking along the pavement, and therefore causing more obstruction. An example of the way people walking along the pavement blocks sight of the relevant sign is clear on google maps. Please see picture 2 where there is a man walking near the sign towards Fulham Road with a pushchair. Clearly, if this man was walking where the relevant sign is located, the sign will not be seen. Also, if one is walking on the opposite side of the road, the sign will not be visible as it will be obstructed by parked or passing vehicles. 3. I did pay for parking according to the sign that was visible As stated above, the only sign which is visible is the one located on a tall post which states: “pay by phone….or pay at machine opposite” – I paid by mobile quoting location 88760 – see picture three for evidence. This is evidence that I was willing to pay for parking Had it been clear the sign on the post didn’t apply to where my vehicle was parked, I wouldn’t have paid quoting the location 88760. 4. The PCN provided was ambiguous as to the offence committed Before I can make any responsive representations, the contravention description needs to clearly stipulate what offence(s) I have committed. Here, the PCN stated I had not paid for parking. However, as evidenced above, I had paid for parking quoting the location 88760, understanding that is the location of where I parked my car. Upon seeing the PCN I re-checked the sign that was on the post and reassured myself that I had paid according to the sign on the post – which I understood to apply to my car’s parking location. It was only when I received the authority’s reply stating the cause of contravention that ‘the vehicle was parked in a resident’s parking place’ that I understood why I’d been given a ticket. Under the ground of ‘procedural impropriety’, I submit that the original PCN placed on my vehicle did not allow me to make my responsive representations as it did not state the alleged contravention that the vehicle was parked in ‘resident’s parking place’ This failure has left me unable to present any responsive representations when I received the initial PCN – and only allowed me to understand the allegation and respond accordingly at the NTO stage, approximately three months after the event. In summary, I disagree with the fairness of the PCN placed on my vehicle and implore you to reconsider this decision taking into account the above representations. Thank you, I look forward to hearing from you in due course. -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 11:50
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Don't say implore, there's no reason for you to grovel.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 22:48
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Got the reply from the council, looks like they ignored everything and Carried on with their agenda of getting paid....
This post has been edited by zee aze: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 22:52 -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 23:21
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,924 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
No offer of discount, so it is a no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals.
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Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 09:35
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
As Incandescent says, you can't end up any worse off by appealing and even if you lose, at least you'll have quite a bit more time before you have to pay. And there's got to be a chance that you might win or the council might not contest, so you might as well go for it.
The recommended approach is to register the appeal on the tribunal website and just write "full grounds to follow" in the reasons box, this will force the council to submit its evidence first. In due course the tribunal will give you a deadline for you to submit your full appeal wording, once we've got our hands on the council's evidence pack we can help you with the drafting. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 18:49
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Got the reply from the council... eventually! They managed to send the response on the last day Is there anything to do now as our submition has not happened as yet (as was waiting for their response) .... Will submit ours tonight/tommorow Any advise is as always greatly appreciated. This post has been edited by zee aze: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 - 19:06 -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 13:52
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Post a draft and we'll tidy it up for you.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 11:27
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
-------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 11:58
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
we need to see your appeal -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 13:50
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
-------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 14:06
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
It looks to me like you gave it your best shot but the adjudicator was entitled to refuse the appeal on the facts and has not left any grounds for a review. I may be wrong.
I said initially this would be a difficult one. |
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Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 18:01
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,075 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
The CEO' photos, your photos and GSV and the adjudicator found 'I am satisfied that the sign ....was beyond double white demarcation lines'. Is what stuffed you. The photos are no longer visible, so it's not possible to check. Who provided GSV? You have this evidence, pl just post it. Did the photos show the lines? If not, then given that these were more recent and therefore relevant than GSV, on what basis did the adj introduce their own evidence with questionable accuracy? |
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Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 20:46
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
I have attached the original pics for you which are below.
The council included a further pic from GSV as evidence which is marked up. There were no other pics taken by the council which showed the differentiation between pay and display or residents permit -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Mon, 4 Nov 2019 - 22:40
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Doesn't matter what you post now, the adjudicator found the signs and line adequate also the paperwork. They are entitled to do so. Nothing left to do
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 6 Nov 2019 - 15:46
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Post a draft and we'll tidy it up for you. There's a reason I said to post a draft of your appeal. If you go it alone, we can't help you. It's too late now. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 21:46 |