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BT's Web of Lies!, OT Rant
glasgow_bhoy
post Sun, 2 Feb 2014 - 22:47
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Not the first time I've ranted about BT... probably not the last. Until August when the contract with them is up.

Anyway, for years we've had poor broadband. December 2012 and I was doing my dissertation, and it totally went. We sat with unusable speeds all through January, and after countless calls being asked to 'use the yellow ethranet cable' (which is actually blue) they got an Openreach engineer out, who found a fault and sorted it. Well he didn't sort it. He got another guy out. Who then arranged for another guy to come back the next day. And then another guy went to the cabinet down the road another time. Something to do with batteries was mentioned- they were sticking poles all over the front lawn and what have you, and out in the pit in the street.
Anyway that was fine for a week, and then it went again. This time they wanted to change the modem. Fine. It was changed after a lot of arguing as I refused to go into another contract and two of their agents at offshore call centres had promised I would not be recontracted. So a new modem was ordered after I demanded several calls were listened to. That didn't solve the issue- I knew it wouldn't (I worked for Virgin at the time.. I had a limited knowledge of technical issues and spoke with an engineer at work). So they did a line test and ohhh theres a fault on the line. A guy came out again, and this time sorted it.

It wasn't great, but it was useable till I graduated. And even after that, I never bothered to chase them to get the speed improved as calling them was daunting. In August, we recontracted on a retentions deal as the price was creeping up big time (was about £40 a month just for phone and broadband). They messed that up- quoted £30, and then charged £30. After 2 phonecalls where I'll admit I lost the rag, it was sorted- partially because I'd lost the will to argue.

Throughout the following months, there were various issues. Generally sorted by rebooting the modem, cursing for 10 minutes and going back to it. Then November happened. Speeds were never above 1mbps. I called.. its a wifi issue I'm told. Several calls later I'm still being told that. They did line tests after I demanded managers, and each time found an issue at the exchange. Each time they'd say it will be sorted in 48 hours, and each time I'd have to chase them. At the end of December, after at least 11 calls that month alone, they changed the modem, again. Despite me telling them the modem was fine. They promised this would fix everything.

It didn't. Infact it managed to slow down in January- I can't watch Netflix, my Xbox keeps getting kicked offline, and my phone, in an area where we don't even get 3G, is quicker than the landline broadband. So I've called, and again, problems at the exchange. I refuse to speak with people in call centres at BT now unless its a manager, and I refuse to do the 'have you tried the wired connection' crap with them as its a waste of my time. Managers have, during January, promised me 4 callbacks on my mobile. One has managed to call back- and he didn't try my mobile. He tried the house phone, which meant I was at work and didn't get the call. And I never managed to get hold of him again.

Last Saturday it came to a peak when one of their level 2 support team hung up on me as I refused to speak to anyone other than his manager (who as usual, wasn't there... they're never there unless I refuse to end the call- then suddenly, they appear- if I'm not hung up on). I was pure ragin. So I emailed the CEO and various other bigwigs I found on that mad CEO finder website.

Sunday I got a reply- have you tried a ethranet connection to check speed... very sorry blah blah blah. Not amused. I emailed back nice and curtly, and on Monday, got another person, from the same escalated complaints team in Newcastle, asking me the same bloody thing. Is this a communications company? Do staff not talk to each other? Shambles. Anyway, he's been alright, and arranged an engineer. He wanted to send one yesterday morning, but frankly, it was my intention to get rat arsed on Friday night and subsequently yesterday I was suffering from a pure bellend of a hangover. So we've got one booked for next Saturday. Thats cool.

However I advised other people living nearby have been complaining about the speeds too (mainly when I moan on Facebook about how awful this company are) and as such, could he find out whats going on at the exchange. Tuesday he told me there might be a problem- they'll investigate it. And on Friday, he told me my exchange was at full capacity and as such its normal to experience some issues. Estimated fix time for this is over 2 weeks away- but nothings set in stone. Not amused at BT's incompetance, I've replied querying why they did not carry out work when it was at an amber status, and more why they think its acceptable to continue billing us at the full rate when they know theres an issue.

A bit more digging online via BT forums has revealled BT have known my exchange was at 'amber' level since at least 20th September 2013. It could be longer, but the tool I used to check could only verify the September date. I'm furious that this wasn't disclosed to me by BT during one of my countless calls over the past 2 months, when I explicitly asked is there a capacity issue in my area.

So, as its a Sunday night, and I can't watch Top Gear on iplayer or watch Netflix or even play Fifa on the 360, I thought I'd warn you all- if your dealing with BT, do not trust a word they say. Proven to be incompetent at best in my case, and proven liars at worst. Certainly not a communications company worth considering- they can't do internal comms never mind deal with the network for the rest of the country. Its shocking. The appitamy of a company and of customer service. If I'd acted like any of their staff have (excluding the complaints dude whos kinda trying his best to help me with the shite service BT has to offer me) I know I'd have been booted within weeks when I worked for one of their competitors. What riles me more is the fact that I worked for said competitor, and at times, didn't like the way customers were treated. But looking back now, the way they were treated was actually bloody amazing in comparison to BT's treatment of me. And at least my previous employer was aware of some of its downfalls, and were doing its best (and doing pretty well) to sort them. My parents have been with them for like 35 years, and had no serious problems until about 18 months ago- nothing bad enough to cause them to leave. This year, has been hellish. The accounts in my Dad's name and I've nipped his ear to get this sorted.. but hes not got the pateiece or will power to argue with these fools. So the regins been passed to me (I've become like the Martin Lewis of complaining and getting results on behalf of friends and family it seems... its an unfortunate skill). Which means I've been persistant. I feel sorry for people who don't do confrontation or arguing well- they are being walked all over by these cretins!

For those who aren't daft enough to sleep reading all that, I'll sum up...

Don't join BT. Seriously. Just don't. And if your with them, jump ship before this happens to you.
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post Sun, 2 Feb 2014 - 22:47
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madbasshunter
post Tue, 4 Feb 2014 - 14:32
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I can't find a good word to say about BT at our last house they managed to cross our line, so if you phoned my number you were answered by either nhs 111 or a talktalk customer on another street! Once they had found the fault and fixed it they tried to charge us for the talktalk customers calls to talktalk customer services (as they were trying to find out what was going on).
Then moved to new house and phone works when it likes so does broadband after 3 months of long calls to bt last was 3.5 hours long where the broadband expert told me to plug my router into the GPO junction box (from 1959) in the loft as there was no master socket only some 1980's telecom socket in the house! On a previous 3 hour call I was told I would have to pay £250 to have an NTE5 fitted.
Then I found Gavin Patterson email address and emailed him in days a new line and NTE5 socket is fitted.


This post has been edited by madbasshunter: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 - 14:40


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glasgow_bhoy
post Tue, 4 Feb 2014 - 20:48
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Today was interesting. Got an email from HR at my old work, who I left a few weeks ago. Immediately, alarm bells started ringing- what had I done or said at a night out with them on Friday night!

Anyway, it was to say a letter had been delivered for me, at my old work, from BT. Amazing. She emailed it over to me, and I couldn't believe what I was reading. Now, I had a home hub delivered to me at work- after 15 minutes of arguing with the BT operator who was adamant I could only get it delivered to my house. It seems that they've since decided to send all BT related mail to my old work. Dispite me telling her on that call to make sure the router arrived by the Friday because it was my last day and I wouldn't get it if it was any later. So they knew not to save the address..

Anyway, they're confirming my installation this weekend! I mean, I'm sure that we're already installed, given the fact we've been using the service at this address since 1995.

It just seems to get better with this lot. Another email has been sent.
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nomadros
post Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 01:14
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I have to agree with GB and the song goes like this....

My broadband is crap...
Are you connected to the test socket?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.
Do you have a BT corded phone connected to the test socket?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.
Is there any noise?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.
Have you changed the filter?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.
Have you changed the modem?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.


(Christmas time question)
Have any of your neighbours put up Xmas decorations?
Of ****ing course, it's Xmas......the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.


We will have to get an engineer out to check the line into the house and if there is a fault in the house we will require an arm and a leg from you plus penetrative sex. Do you agree to be shafted?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.
This is BT, our engineer checked the house and could find no fault, we will check the exchange next week. Is this OK?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.
This is BT, our engineer checked the exchange and could find no fault, we will check the green cabinet next week. Is this OK?
Yes...the problem will be in the green cabinet, it's always in the green cabinet.
This is BT, our engineer checked the green cabinet and found a fault which he has repaired. Can we interest you in our latest product?
**** OFF.
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Tancred
post Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 01:54
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I find most ISP's are poor these days, it's not unusual to have to deal with people's ISP's for them as they've been unable to get anywhere themselves as they've been fobbed off by support putting the blame on something within the house but giving little help to track it down.

I'm with a small ISP that had very good customer service and the internet service has generally been consistent and stable but they were bought over last year and unsurprisingly the service has gone steadily downhill with loss of speed, frequent disconnects and unhelpful tech support...need to try and find someone else now.
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Lucifa
post Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 12:59
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QUOTE (Tancred @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 01:54) *
I find most ISP's are poor these days, it's not unusual to have to deal with people's ISP's for them as they've been unable to get anywhere themselves as they've been fobbed off by support putting the blame on something within the house but giving little help to track it down.

I'm with a small ISP that had very good customer service and the internet service has generally been consistent and stable but they were bought over last year and unsurprisingly the service has gone steadily downhill with loss of speed, frequent disconnects and unhelpful tech support...need to try and find someone else now.



Can I ask who that ISP is?

All of the posts above are the reason I choose to pay a premium for my fibre broadband and phone line (£35/m) with a small ISP (ADSL24)
Though they all have to deal with BT the same as anyone else when it comes to the backend, everything else is theirs and it's one of those companies where someone technical answers the phone after 2 rings.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 13:04
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I'm going to guess at PlusNet.

They had rave reviews for Customer Service right up to the point where they were bought out by BT and then the wheels came off.


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Monster 900
post Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 18:10
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 13:04) *
I'm going to guess at PlusNet.

They had rave reviews for Customer Service right up to the point where they were bought out by BT and then the wheels came off.


And is owned by BT.


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nigelbb
post Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 10:27
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QUOTE (captain swoop @ Tue, 4 Feb 2014 - 09:39) *
BT will get most complains, they are the biggest provider.

Unless you live in Hull or one of the select urban areas served by Virgin then BT are the only provider from exchange to premises even in those exchanges that have been LLUd. Sadly Virgin have no interest in expanding their network beyond that of the old cable companies whose infrastructure they bought up cheap when they all went broke.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 10:30


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Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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enfield freddy
post Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 10:41
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BT stuck there noise in in Lancashire , providing services for the county counsil , alas they have been booted out , as there forecasts were not correct and there charges were too much
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enjoy-life
post Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 11:42
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DSL Zone were IMO a neutral, reliable and objective source of information, shame they went offline.

The last snapshotted version of their ratings chart is here

http://web.archive.org/web/20120920014441/...isp_ratings.php

I've experience of ISPs at both end of the scale and from my own experience DSLZone's survey got it right.
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ManxRed
post Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 13:51
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QUOTE (Monster 900 @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 18:10) *
QUOTE (ManxRed @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 13:04) *
I'm going to guess at PlusNet.

They had rave reviews for Customer Service right up to the point where they were bought out by BT and then the wheels came off.


And is owned by BT.


Yes, which is why I said 'up to the point where they were bought out by BT'


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bama
post Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 14:08
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BT router probs ?
Check for traffic through VLAN 301 ! and traffic to the 30. network smile.gif


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Tancred
post Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 17:17
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QUOTE (Lucifa @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 12:59) *
QUOTE (Tancred @ Wed, 5 Feb 2014 - 01:54) *
I find most ISP's are poor these days, it's not unusual to have to deal with people's ISP's for them as they've been unable to get anywhere themselves as they've been fobbed off by support putting the blame on something within the house but giving little help to track it down.

I'm with a small ISP that had very good customer service and the internet service has generally been consistent and stable but they were bought over last year and unsurprisingly the service has gone steadily downhill with loss of speed, frequent disconnects and unhelpful tech support...need to try and find someone else now.



Can I ask who that ISP is?

All of the posts above are the reason I choose to pay a premium for my fibre broadband and phone line (£35/m) with a small ISP (ADSL24)
Though they all have to deal with BT the same as anyone else when it comes to the backend, everything else is theirs and it's one of those companies where someone technical answers the phone after 2 rings.


Funnily enough it (or was) ADSL24, I went with them for the same reasons you've mentioned as I prefer having proper technical support, a stable connection and honest download caps with no traffic shaping. They were bought over by Coms PLC last year and within the last few weeks they've been changing ADSL24 customers over to the Coms PLC network (no idea what that is, I think ADSL24 were still using Murphx/Daisy), they had that huge outage coincidentally the same day I received the letter about them being bought over. I was going to sign up to fibre but decided to wait and see how the new company went as they usually go downhill (was with Freedom2surf previously...urgh) so I didn't want to be stuck with them for 12 months. So far it hasn't been good, the connection has been almost flawless up until now but recently there's been a few nights where it's been down a few hours after midnight (CHAP authentication fails so not a line issue) and the speed has halved yet again for no obvious reason.

They haven't carried over ADSL24's fibre packages so I definitely won't be going with them, ADSL24 had a £30ish package with the full download/upload although a lower cap which was fine as I just leave stuff to download overnight but with the new packages you have to take a £50 package a month to get the full speed.

Any recommendations for other small ISPs like ADSL24 were are welcome.

This post has been edited by Tancred: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 17:19
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glasgow_bhoy
post Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 21:55
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 10:27) *
QUOTE (captain swoop @ Tue, 4 Feb 2014 - 09:39) *
BT will get most complains, they are the biggest provider.

Unless you live in Hull or one of the select urban areas served by Virgin then BT are the only provider from exchange to premises even in those exchanges that have been LLUd. Sadly Virgin have no interest in expanding their network beyond that of the old cable companies whose infrastructure they bought up cheap when they all went broke.

Noticed today that Virgin have now bought SmallWorldCable.
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glasgow_bhoy
post Sat, 8 Feb 2014 - 03:01
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And an end to the sorry saga.... my 19 emails between myself and BT must have done something, as the exchange was upgraded on Friday afternoon.. I've just got home and speed test is coming back at 5.5mbps... fastest I've ever experienced at this house. Delighted, but probs definatly leaving BT in the summer.

Now, onto the next company to argue with. NHS is seriously tempting me after the past 42 hours!!!
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Lucifa
post Tue, 11 Feb 2014 - 13:20
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QUOTE (Tancred @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 17:17) *
Funnily enough it (or was) ADSL24, I went with them for the same reasons you've mentioned as I prefer having proper technical support, a stable connection and honest download caps with no traffic shaping. They were bought over by Coms PLC last year and within the last few weeks they've been changing ADSL24 customers over to the Coms PLC network (no idea what that is, I think ADSL24 were still using Murphx/Daisy), they had that huge outage coincidentally the same day I received the letter about them being bought over. I was going to sign up to fibre but decided to wait and see how the new company went as they usually go downhill (was with Freedom2surf previously...urgh) so I didn't want to be stuck with them for 12 months. So far it hasn't been good, the connection has been almost flawless up until now but recently there's been a few nights where it's been down a few hours after midnight (CHAP authentication fails so not a line issue) and the speed has halved yet again for no obvious reason.

They haven't carried over ADSL24's fibre packages so I definitely won't be going with them, ADSL24 had a £30ish package with the full download/upload although a lower cap which was fine as I just leave stuff to download overnight but with the new packages you have to take a £50 package a month to get the full speed.

Any recommendations for other small ISPs like ADSL24 were are welcome.


Interesting, I wondered if it was the same.
I've not had the problems you describe - line went down the day it was transferred over for about 30 mins and that's it.

Line speed has been fine as far as I am aware - I get 76mb so even if it did halve for a while I probably wouldn't notice unless I was watching something download.
It's a shame you weren't on fibre already, as they transferred my ~35/m package over to one of their ~50/m packages but with no price increase as long as I don't change packages. Boosts my previous 50GB cap to 500 too.

This post has been edited by Lucifa: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 - 13:20
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rscott
post Tue, 11 Feb 2014 - 14:18
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QUOTE (bama @ Thu, 6 Feb 2014 - 14:08) *
BT router probs ?
Check for traffic through VLAN 301 ! and traffic to the 30. network smile.gif


Ah ha - the infamous 'secret network feeding the NSA' tin foil hat scare story.. Or actually BT using an already allocated network for their management VLAN..

More details here - http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/...ttc-modems.html & http://revk.www.me.uk/2013/12/paraniod-ravings.html
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bama
post Tue, 11 Feb 2014 - 14:26
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you saw the smile.gif ?


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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glasgow_bhoy
post Wed, 2 Jul 2014 - 21:26
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I've said it 2/3 times at least in the past on these forums, but I'm going to reitterate the point.

If you want to have ANY sanity left, please, please do not join BT for internet. Infact I'd go as far as to say avoid them altogether- general performance is up there with the worst I have encountered. And I've had some pretty poor service from other companies!

We had a few faults early last year. I spent hours on the phone to BT, and they replaced the home hub. Tried charging us for it, but there were recorded phonecalls where we'd been promised it for free, and without recontracting. They tried to charge despite these phonecalls, saying we'd been told that by mistake- but my persistance and refusal to get off the phone led to charges being dropped.

Last August, we stupidly recontracted- price for landline and broadband had crept upto over £40, and seeing as it just comes off my parents account via direct debit, they didn't care. I on the other hand am militant against companies such as BT taking the rip out of customers, and so got the price down to £32, for the exact same level of service.

September came and the problems started again. The home hub was replaced- it did nothing. We spent ages on the phone, generally once or twice a week betwen then and December when the hub was replaced for the third time that year. Still no resolve. I contacted CEO complaints, and had 2 engineers out, before someone posted a link on this site, which showed my local exchange was running at over capacity and funnily enough, had been for some time. I quizzed the complaints guy about the exchange, and was lied to, having been told there was nothing up with it. I presented him with the information I'd found online before he admitted there was a capacity issue.

In February/March, after over 40 emails with the complaints advisor, our speed increased from below 1mbps to around 4-5mbps. Still dropped out regularly, but at least we had connectivity. Fair play to BT, we got some credit back- around £70 worth- not really enough to cover 5/6 months of constant problems, but it was something.

Since then, we've noticed it getting slower and slower, but due to family commitments, haven't had the energy or patience to start the argument with BT again. On Saturday, we got up to find we couldn't access many websites, which was inconvenient to say the least. Called BT but couldn't even get through to their helplines- kept being disconnected before that.

So on Sunday, we managed to get back online (could have been on later on Saturday, but by that point I'd went into my work to use the internet there), although we had speeds of 0.176mbps.

I emailed the complaints guy who I've been dealing with- explained that I was not prepared to go through customer services and I felt the issue was related to the one we had the complaint about earlier in the year. Also complained at the fact I've unsubscribed from their marketing emails (which I never bloody subscribed to in the first place!!) and they continue to annoy me with their crap.

His response was I can't help- you need to contact customer services... they're the best folk for the job. I've combated that yesterday by responding telling him I want a new complaint referance number due to the reoccurring fault and the use of my email address for marketing which I've opted out of. No reply today though as far as I know.

Cherry on the cake was yesterday when my Uncle phoned to have a recently passed away relatives phone disconnected. They were wanting to know they answer to all sorts of questions on the account- questions he didn't know the answer to and which wouldn't have been discussed for nearly 35 years since the phone was installed with BT in that house! Because he couldn't answer them, the call was ended!!! He called back and got someone else, but there was no record of anyone being in the account previously... convenient or what!

Now, sorry if I'm going on here, but what kind of company can get away with operating in this way? I believe BT are the kind of company that relies on the fact they were previously public sector, and as such have many customers- mainly older or of my parents generation who refuse to change (-cos of the hastle and cos they're all the same apparantly), and who just don't complain about the service they recieve, or indeed are not even aware of the poor service they're recieving as they've never recieved any better. I believe they are the kind of company who are stuck in the past when they had a monopoly on the market, and haven't quite clicked they need to actually fix faults for customers, and train their staff on customer service before letting them near customers.

I've worked in a call centre- I know what customers can be like, and I know I'm probably classed as being very demanding (because I never trust anyone to do things right due to past experience...). I know that being in the call centre, if your lazy, means you are a middle man... targets on one side and uncooperative departments/outsoure companies on the other. Company policy meanwhile meaning you 'shouldn't' do this that or the other, even though its what you should do (rarely stopped me...). But the level of service BT staff appear to provide would not be tolerated by other some of their competitors, if staff were caught. I don't know anyone in their call centres, but I know an Openreach engineer who has expressed a fair bit of disgust at the way he was treated as a BT customer and has sworn never to go back to them again. That says it all- okay he doesn't work for their retail side, but you'd expect they'd be good to him anyway.

As such, I'd seriously recommend staying the hell away from BT. Expensive, useless and frankly disgusting as a company. If your already with them, look at the alternatives- I'll bet you can find cheaper, and I'd reckon you'll find better quality of both internet and customer service if you look elsewhere.
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captain swoop
post Thu, 3 Jul 2014 - 07:22
Post #60


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You knows they leech some of your bandwidth for the mobile phone 'Hotspots' which are hosted via your router don't you?
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