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Ripped off with second hand car
Topper3115
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 18:41
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Hi I wonder if anyone has any advice please?

In May I bought a second hand car from a garage. It was an AA assured garage. 10 weeks later the car breaks down a long way from home. AA tows car (but stupidly I only drop it at a local garage near where it broke down) Ring garage, garage say tough luck.
Ring AA - they say they will get in touch with the garage and tell them to uphold the law. EVENTUALLY the car has to be towed (at my expense) back to the garage. The garage then take weeks to 'repair' the car by replacing the engine. This process takes 9 weeks in total.

I pick up the car but I don't trust the garage. I take it to our own garage and put it through an MOT. It fails. The mechanic tells me the garage had damaged the suspension arms covers when they dropped the replacement engine in. It also has a very badly corroded headlight. I pay £250 for the repair. By this time the car has been broken down for 11 weeks.

On the way home from the garage the car breaks down. The fan is not working, the coils are very poor, the cylinder head is misfiring and there's a problem with the fuel sensor according to the AA roadside report.

I contact the garage again - I threaten legal action. They offer me a £1000 refund on a car that I bought at £1600.

What do you think?
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post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 18:41
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mickR
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 19:18
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I think your post is very confusing. Maybe you should read through it again and confirm some points.
Which garage said tough luck?
Which garage did the work? The one who sold it to you?
Which one did the Mot?
Suspension arm covers?? What are they? Not sure how you damage suspension putting an engine in.
Coils ? What coils?
A cylinder head doesn't misfire.

Can you post the AA report please.

This post has been edited by mickR: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 19:18
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Topper3115
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 19:37
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Right, I'm sorry.
Let's try again.

Garage 1 sells the car. When it breaks down miles from home I ring them. They say tough luck, get it fixed on warranty. Warranty won't cover the major repair (cylinder head damaged)

AA get involved. They tell garage 1 to adhere to the law.

Garage 1 'repairs' the car.

I take car to garage 2 - I trust this garage and have used for years. I say MOT it, I don't trust garage 1 to have fixed it properly.
Car fails.

Front suspension ball joint dust cover excessively damaged so that it no longer prevents ingress of dirt - offside AND near side lower.

I drive car home after paying to get it through its MOT at garage 2. Car breaks down on way home. AA Report says

Engine control
Cylinder 1 error message misfire detected
Fuel tank filling level sensor
Signal improbable
New engine fitted engine overheated tonight coil poor condition
No cooling fan operation stopped engine at 104 degrees
Advise ok to drive to local garage when engine is cold and have coolant replaced and fan operation repaired

Hope that makes a little more sense!

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mickR
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 20:09
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Much better. Ok so ball joint covers might have been damaged when releasing drive shafts or might be wear and tear (less likely as it's both)
Minor issue.
Overheating due to fan could be simple as not plugging fan back in or a temp sensor, prob a minor issue.
Coil not working properly could be cause of misfire

What was the major c/head issue?

At the end of the day regardless of warranty (Which I'm very surprised if it doesn't cover the c/head issue) sale if goods act requires the car to be fit for use. An engine problem that stops it's use would be a big stick to bash them for a full refund if you don't want the car.

This post has been edited by mickR: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 20:10
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Topper3115
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 20:34
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Thank you, it's all like a foreign language to me! I guess I just have to decide if I accept 1000 refund for a car which I paid 1600 for, plus the tow cost plus the garage bill to get it passed on the mot...
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DancingDad
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 20:59
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I wouldn't.
The law is clear.
A trader has a duty to ensure that any vehicle they sell is fit for purpose and to remedy any faults that occur.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 10 Oct 2017 - 04:15
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I agree, the Consumer rights act (replaced the sale of good act but the wording is pretty much identical) means you can reject a car for faults upto 6 months old and the onus is on the garage to prove they weren't there at time of sale not on you to prove they were.

I'd be writing the garage a letter before county court claim.

Sounds like the headgasket has gone, will cause a misfire and overheating


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fedup2
post Tue, 10 Oct 2017 - 07:50
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Id take the £1000 and then look to retrive the outstanding.At least that way you have something and that will buy you another car although this time take someone with you who knows what they are doing.

As for the faults,looks more electrical than mechanical to me but from here and without knowing the model who knows.

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DancingDad
post Tue, 10 Oct 2017 - 07:58
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The trouble with accepting the 1000 is that it could be seen as a settlement, blocking any chance of getting the rest.
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glasgow_bhoy
post Tue, 10 Oct 2017 - 19:39
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How many miles have you driven in this car since buying it? Garages are within their right to refund minus a charge per mile- I can't remember how much per mile is allowed/reasonable, but £600 is a lot!
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mickR
post Tue, 10 Oct 2017 - 20:17
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What car is it??
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Topper3115
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 19:12
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It's an Astra. Been advised that the current value of the car is 1000 so to argue for more money is futile. I have however reported the garage to trading standards as they released the car to me in a condition in which it was not roadworthy. Watch this space! Thanks again to all who took the time to contribute x
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DancingDad
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 19:27
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What has current value got to do with the price of chips ?

You agreed a price with the garage for a roadworthy vehicle.
Whether that price reflects market value or not is irrelevant.
It is the price paid.

Now it seems the vehicle was not roadworthy, not fit for purpose.
That puts the ball firmly in the dealer's court to either fix, refund or refute.

The only out they have is if in the time you owned it, you put on a significant number of miles or otherwise treated it in a way that was either seriously more then expected or negligent.

So, put on 40K, took it track day racing, filled the sump with diesel ?
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Topper3115
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 20:31
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You're right, I know you are and I feel exactly the same. The problem is that they have technically offered a refund, which is all they have to do by law. There are no guidelines for 'fair useage ' .
As the car has already been off the road since the 2nd August I just don't have the time to wait another three months without a car, and I can't afford another car until I get a refund. It's a bit of a catch 22.

If I had the luxury of time I'd take them all the way to court and run the risk of getting nothing back for months and months.
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glasgow_bhoy
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 02:52
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Have you actually discussed the Consumer Rights act with them? It has small car dealers quivering as its really made to work against them (almost unfair to them in some cases IMO).

I'd push for the full £1,600, but offer to take off £1-200 (or whatever you deem reasonable) for mileage, and agree to take the hit on the £250 you spent yourself unless they authorised that work (not saying you should have to, but it may help reach an amicable agreement).

Failing that, I don't suppose you paid by credit card or by Visa debit- even a deposit?

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kezzy
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 10:54
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The AA man advised to take it back to garage No.1 , you did not do that, he even advised the garage No.1 to abide by the law, which they probably agreed with him, but you did not take the car back to garage No1, in which you then did not give them the chance to correct the fault, or faults. So therefore you have denied him his rights to correct it. You took it to Garage No 2, who failed it on an MOT, so therefore denying garage No 1 of correcting any faults, you have gone about this all wrong and should have given Garage No1 the chance to correct it. settle for the £1,000, and thank your lucky stars you are getting something back, the fault lay with you not trusting the garage No. 1 to put it right.
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I am Weasel
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 12:15
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QUOTE (kezzy @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 11:54) *
The AA man advised to take it back to garage No.1 , you did not do that, he even advised the garage No.1 to abide by the law, which they probably agreed with him, but you did not take the car back to garage No1, in which you then did not give them the chance to correct the fault, or faults. So therefore you have denied him his rights to correct it. You took it to Garage No 2, who failed it on an MOT, so therefore denying garage No 1 of correcting any faults, you have gone about this all wrong and should have given Garage No1 the chance to correct it. settle for the £1,000, and thank your lucky stars you are getting something back, the fault lay with you not trusting the garage No. 1 to put it right.

That's not how I read it - I read it as:

  • OP takes car to garage 1 to repair it - as per advice from AA
  • OP then takes to garage 2 for MOT - and to check that garage 1 has properly repaired it


This post has been edited by I am Weasel: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 12:16
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Topper3115
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 17:29
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QUOTE (I am Weasel @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 13:15) *
QUOTE (kezzy @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 11:54) *
The AA man advised to take it back to garage No.1 , you did not do that, he even advised the garage No.1 to abide by the law, which they probably agreed with him, but you did not take the car back to garage No1, in which you then did not give them the chance to correct the fault, or faults. So therefore you have denied him his rights to correct it. You took it to Garage No 2, who failed it on an MOT, so therefore denying garage No 1 of correcting any faults, you have gone about this all wrong and should have given Garage No1 the chance to correct it. settle for the £1,000, and thank your lucky stars you are getting something back, the fault lay with you not trusting the garage No. 1 to put it right.

That's not how I read it - I read it as:

  • OP takes car to garage 1 to repair it - as per advice from AA
  • OP then takes to garage 2 for MOT - and to check that garage 1 has properly repaired it




Your right, that's exactly what happened. I gave it back to the garage that we bought it from to allow them to repair the vehicle. Frankly I would have really liked it if they'd just repaired it, all was well and I would have continued to drive the car quite happily. It was because of how hard we had to fight in order for them to agree to even try to repair it in the first place that I began to distrust them. No reputable dealer would just say tough luck. They know the consumer rights.

Once they had completed their 'repair' ( taking them 11 weeks to agree to repair and actually give it back to us) I took the car to garage number 2 (he's the garage that we have been using for years for all of our family vehicles) and asked him to just give it a check over to make sure that it was all safe and sound for me to give to my daughter to drive. That's when the problems came to light. As it was it broke down again the same evening anyway...
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fedup2
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 18:20
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If you want real advice,take someone who knows what they are doing next time you buy a cheap car.My second bit of advice would be steer clear of Vauxhalls especially petrol ones.

And finally,what caused the headlight to corrode so quickly in the time you owned it? I know the answer already but my point is if you cant see a badly corroded headlight when viewing a vehicle then take the above advice or you end up with a Lemon and poor service.

This post has been edited by fedup2: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 18:21
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Topper3115
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 19:55
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 19:20) *
If you want real advice,take someone who knows what they are doing next time you buy a cheap car.My second bit of advice would be steer clear of Vauxhalls especially petrol ones.

And finally,what caused the headlight to corrode so quickly in the time you owned it? I know the answer already but my point is if you cant see a badly corroded headlight when viewing a vehicle then take the above advice or you end up with a Lemon and poor service.



I won't be touching a Vauxhall again - I'm not a mechanic nor am I an expert on buying a second hand vehicle (evidently) which is EXACTLY why I didn't buy privately, but instead through an AA assured garage, where (stupidly) I thought I was covered by the law!!!!
At the end of the day, hindsight is always 20/20!
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