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Lane Discipline, About time something was done
Broadsman
post Sun, 1 Oct 2017 - 15:17
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Driving home today, I spent about 150 miles on the motorway network.

Apart from one driver who insisted on doing 48mph in lane 3, of 4, and was oblivious to everything around him, most others were travelling around the 65mph mark, regardless of the lane they were in. Lane discipline was appalling by the majority of those on the road, me included as I used the left lanes to pass traffic travelling slower than I was. As they were travelling slower and I wasn't breaking the speed limit, was I wrong? Highway code says you can pass on the left if the lane to the right is travelling slower.

Undertaking is illegal but should it be?

Except around junctions, I can see no reason why passing on the left should not be made legal.

Along with the MLOC, you get those that will sit in the right hand lane and refuse to move, there could be a mile to the next object on the inner lanes but they won't move and they will continue to drive at a speed below the limit, refusing those that want to drive faster the opportunity to pass.

A couple of weeks ago I followed 3 cars for 28 miles, they sat in the right lane on the dual carriageway at 66mph. Long gaps appeared in the left lane so I went up the inside and passed two of them, the third though, not a chance. Each time I tried, he increased speed and as soon as I backed off he would, but then slow down more.

I know I'm wrong for wanting to get to places and not break the speed limit in doing so. I know I'm wrong for passing others on the left but what other options are left, except sitting behind something that refuses to move to the left or speed up?

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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 10:45
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middle lane hogging is a pet hate of mine. people are just not aware of the potential dangers it causes. I have talked to many I know (castigated really) and have heard many excuses.

FiL "I drive at 70 so no one should want to overtake me, there's too much debris in the inside lane"

BiL learnt dad habits from dad but also he has an escape route both side if something goes wrong

sister can't see out of the mirrors that well so does not want to keep pulling in then out again.

But what seems to be a big part of the problem is the number of people that will not use the outside lane.

I do quite regular trips from Manchester to the Netherlands and Spain via dover. Many times I can drive down the inside lane of the m6/M1 at 65 mph or so passing literally a mile queue of cars moving slower
in the middle. they can see a truck in the distance and don't want to be stuck behind it.

As with mobile use only stricter penalties and enforcement will reduce it. if not perfectly adequate 3 lane motorways become inadequate 2 lane ones

Truckers should also understand that the truck in front that they are closing on will not give a tow when the pull out so if they are only a mile an hour or so faster then pulling back in and lifting of a bit is a better option
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fedup2
post Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 11:58
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You havnt the slightest clue about what truckers should understand!

YOU have to understand that on a motorway of 3 lanes they can use only two.We know what happens in lane two.Try 10 hours a day driving in it!!

Thats why they cannot recruit new drivers.Nobody in their right minds would do it.Everyone is the enemy,Police,Vosa,their bosses,their customers,and worst of all ignorant drivers who do stuff round trucks no sane person could dream of and you have to deal with it all being forced to work 15 hour shifts with varying start times.I say try it before you knock it!!
Then make a mistake,your off to jail..............
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 12:13
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 12:58) *
You havnt the slightest clue about what truckers should understand!

YOU have to understand that on a motorway of 3 lanes they can use only two.We know what happens in lane two.Try 10 hours a day driving in it!!

Thats why they cannot recruit new drivers.Nobody in their right minds would do it.Everyone is the enemy,Police,Vosa,their bosses,their customers,and worst of all ignorant drivers who do stuff round trucks no sane person could dream of and you have to deal with it all being forced to work 15 hour shifts with varying start times.I say try it before you knock it!!
Then make a mistake,your off to jail..............


Shut the Fu2 up you no naught about me whereas you post indicate your blinkered (wrong) approach to driving I was driving trucks when you had to drive them, not point them in the direction you want to go and press a button.

go try some proper long distance work on the continent and try your approach to truck driving over there you wouldn't last 5 minutes

And don't try the you know about foreign drivers coz you see them over here they do the same as the domestic ones because they get away with it.

I see class one jobs offering £10 ph I earned more than that in 1986, so what was the reason they can't recruit. Pay peanuts get monkeys
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typefish
post Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 12:33
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 11:13) *
who have now switched to not using the left lanes whatsoever from the point of joining the road to the point they get off it,empty or not,moving for nothing or no one and if prompted you get nothing but aggression. My question is what made them start to do that?


"I don't want to get stuck behind a lorry because no one will let me out"

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 11:45) *
But what seems to be a big part of the problem is the number of people that will not use the outside lane.


Why use the outside lane when everyone else is doing 72mph and you can't go that much faster as there's a camera waiting on a gantry for you?!?!

This post has been edited by typefish: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 12:33
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fedup2
post Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 13:03
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 13:13) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 12:58) *
You havnt the slightest clue about what truckers should understand!

YOU have to understand that on a motorway of 3 lanes they can use only two.We know what happens in lane two.Try 10 hours a day driving in it!!

Thats why they cannot recruit new drivers.Nobody in their right minds would do it.Everyone is the enemy,Police,Vosa,their bosses,their customers,and worst of all ignorant drivers who do stuff round trucks no sane person could dream of and you have to deal with it all being forced to work 15 hour shifts with varying start times.I say try it before you knock it!!
Then make a mistake,your off to jail..............


Shut the Fu2 up you no naught about me whereas you post indicate your blinkered (wrong) approach to driving I was driving trucks when you had to drive them, not point them in the direction you want to go and press a button.

go try some proper long distance work on the continent and try your approach to truck driving over there you wouldn't last 5 minutes

And don't try the you know about foreign drivers coz you see them over here they do the same as the domestic ones because they get away with it.

I see class one jobs offering £10 ph I earned more than that in 1986, so what was the reason they can't recruit. Pay peanuts get monkeys


Ha ha you drove wooden trucks and your an expert on modern trucks and modern conditions smile.gif

Times have changed old man.

As for £10 an hour you live in cookoo land.When things are advertised its because theres a need to.A company paying class 1 drivers £10 an hour WILL need to and be hoping they can find some one desperate with little experience to take the job.
Some days of the week is well in excess of £30 an hour and more for others.Despite there being alot of money to be earnt they Cannot recruit new drivers.I know because almost every day i get begging text or phone calls from companys needing them.Would you like to see them or maybe both my eyes and ears are blinkered!!

What makes you think i havnt done work abroad lol.Kin forum idiots!!
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 13:18
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QUOTE
Times have changed old man.


Yep they've got a lot easier as regards the mechanics of driving, as regards the roads being busier, yes they are but if you drive properly and are aware of what's going on no problem


QUOTE
What makes you think i havnt done work abroad


coz I have, and still drive abroad a lot and see what happens if a trucker steps out of line re lane discipline. Admittedly it's become a lot worse but still better than in the UK

If you have, you should have a far better understanding of how and when to overtake. !0 minutes to overtake another truck means you shouldn't have. you need to have just a basic understanding of (a) aerodynamics and (b) common courtesy

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southpaw82
post Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 13:32
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Just because this is the flame pit doesn't excuse you from the normal rules of civility. Leave the person comments out of it.


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nigelbb
post Wed, 4 Oct 2017 - 07:39
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I lived in France for fifteen years & in my experience while a minority of French drivers drive appallingly lane hogging is not one of their vices. In fact lane discipline in general on French motorways is fantastic probably encouraged by the fact that if you do hog a lane or go too slow in the outside lane then you are likely to have a car approach at speed from behind & start tailgating & flashing headlights indicating that you should get out of the way.


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Mr Meldrew
post Wed, 4 Oct 2017 - 11:47
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 11:13) *
I would disagree,many are useless but much of it is just plain bad attitude.This isnt just contained to people in cars you only need to read the internet to get an idea how angry many people are nowadays,being in the safety of a locked car has become one way of venting it on other innocent motorists around them.Many just treating the roads as a 'game'.
Society is really going in the wrong direction for me.Even cars used to have happy faces,but now they are snarls and clear sad faces.Negativity is being pumped at a fast rate 24 hours a day,if you let it.I went to a friends yesterday and had to sit while their tv was on,and it just pumped wall to wall misery,nothing but death,violence and misery.

There isnt one thing to blame its many things and its not a certain group of drivers its from all walks of life of all ages and experiences.Its common to see older people who drove for many years in the correct lanes doing things right,who have now switched to not using the left lanes whatsoever from the point of joining the road to the point they get off it,empty or not,moving for nothing or no one and if prompted you get nothing but aggression. My question is what made them start to do that?

Maybe someone here is one of them and can tell me because it confuses the hell out of me.Im pretty old school,but i still value the wave over the finger.

This might help. Warning for content and plain scariness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E


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facade
post Fri, 6 Oct 2017 - 18:37
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 08:56) *
Truth is you need marked cars (which only improve matters when they are in sight anyway) and unmarked with the implied threat you could be in sight of one and not know it, in fact on that basis of course unmarked are MORE effective than marked.


Depends on whether you judge "effectiveness" as "crimes detected" or "crimes discouraged/prevented" , but of course you can only measure one of those ( and then set a target of 50% more next year with 50% less staff on the same wage, like in every employment nowadays..)

This post has been edited by facade: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 - 18:38
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roythebus
post Sat, 7 Oct 2017 - 10:52
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One of my pet hates are the lane hoggers. I've posted enough on here before about them. I usually drive several hundred miles a week on the M20/M25. the M20 is usually not too bad, but once on the M25 lane hogging is rife. It effectively reduces the 4 lane road to a 3 lane road. Quite why I haven't really discovered. Even in the early hours of the morning there's lane hoggers on the motorways. Usually I can't be arsed to move from lane 1 at <ahem> 70mph across to lane 4 to pass them,so stay in lane 1 to do so. even then they are so unaware of what's around them to move over.

I also drive tens of thousands of miles a year abroad, lane discipline there is usually good with very few drivers hogging lane 2 or 3. It simply isn't British.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 7 Oct 2017 - 11:35
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I've been trying, not too hard I admit, to find a survey/report I read a few months back.
TBH, not an overly credible survey, one of those "rules that 9/10 drivers don't know" types.
But it reckoned that a high proportion of drivers believe that lane 1 is only for lorries.

Not sure I'd believe whatever percentage they stated but it certainly seems that way sometimes, often on empty motorways.
I've had a few journeys along the M54 recently, two lane motorway.
Lane 1, the odd lorry or small group of them, usually a reasonable distance apart, certainly far enough to warrant dropping back into lane 1 after overtaking.
Lane 2, stream of cars, queues often headed by 1 car doing 65mph.

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fedup2
post Sat, 7 Oct 2017 - 11:54
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 7 Oct 2017 - 12:35) *
I've been trying, not too hard I admit, to find a survey/report I read a few months back.
TBH, not an overly credible survey, one of those "rules that 9/10 drivers don't know" types.
But it reckoned that a high proportion of drivers believe that lane 1 is only for lorries.

Not sure I'd believe whatever percentage they stated but it certainly seems that way sometimes, often on empty motorways.
I've had a few journeys along the M54 recently, two lane motorway.
Lane 1, the odd lorry or small group of them, usually a reasonable distance apart, certainly far enough to warrant dropping back into lane 1 after overtaking.
Lane 2, stream of cars, queues often headed by 1 car doing 65mph.


I wouldnt take too much notice of surveys.

My money is on most drivers know exactly what lane they are supposed to be in.Ive seen them time and time again magically disapear when theres a marked car about.

To further reinstate that,if it was lack of knowledge then a simple nudge with lights would see them move but most of us know that is far from what happens.

Its nothing but bad attitude and these people are just bombs waiting to go off and they very often do.

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kommando
post Sat, 7 Oct 2017 - 16:38
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I liked driving in the US where you can pass on both sides, they can lane hog all day long and you just breeze past them on which ever side suits. In Germany you soon find out if you are in the outer lane too long when a fast car comes up behind you and what you are expected to do.
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JagDriver
post Thu, 19 Oct 2017 - 14:20
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QUOTE
There's no specific offence of undertaking, no.


I was pulled once for undertaking. I'd been behind a transit (white) in lane 3 for 2 miles, it was snowing heavily, no one else on the m-way (late at night). Flashed him a number of times. Waited until I was past the next exit/entrance and proceeded to lane 1 and undertook him. What I didn't realise was that a marked car was joining the m-way from the previous entrance. He pulled me and told me my driving was below standard (which I guessed was the old attitude test). I agreed and explained the above. He let me go without caution.
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oldstoat
post Thu, 19 Oct 2017 - 19:23
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 14:03) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 13:13) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Tue, 3 Oct 2017 - 12:58) *
You havnt the slightest clue about what truckers should understand!

YOU have to understand that on a motorway of 3 lanes they can use only two.We know what happens in lane two.Try 10 hours a day driving in it!!

Thats why they cannot recruit new drivers.Nobody in their right minds would do it.Everyone is the enemy,Police,Vosa,their bosses,their customers,and worst of all ignorant drivers who do stuff round trucks no sane person could dream of and you have to deal with it all being forced to work 15 hour shifts with varying start times.I say try it before you knock it!!
Then make a mistake,your off to jail..............


Shut the Fu2 up you no naught about me whereas you post indicate your blinkered (wrong) approach to driving I was driving trucks when you had to drive them, not point them in the direction you want to go and press a button.

go try some proper long distance work on the continent and try your approach to truck driving over there you wouldn't last 5 minutes

And don't try the you know about foreign drivers coz you see them over here they do the same as the domestic ones because they get away with it.

I see class one jobs offering £10 ph I earned more than that in 1986, so what was the reason they can't recruit. Pay peanuts get monkeys


Ha ha you drove wooden trucks and your an expert on modern trucks and modern conditions smile.gif

Times have changed old man.

As for £10 an hour you live in cookoo land.When things are advertised its because theres a need to.A company paying class 1 drivers £10 an hour WILL need to and be hoping they can find some one desperate with little experience to take the job.
Some days of the week is well in excess of £30 an hour and more for others.Despite there being alot of money to be earnt they Cannot recruit new drivers.I know because almost every day i get begging text or phone calls from companys needing them.Would you like to see them or maybe both my eyes and ears are blinkered!!

What makes you think i havnt done work abroad lol.Kin forum idiots!!


Where on earth are these £30 an hour jobs. Send me some links please Round here in the East Yorkshire area you would be hard pushed to find any class 1 role paying more than £14 and thats for weekend working


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fedup2
post Thu, 19 Oct 2017 - 19:39
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................

This post has been edited by fedup2: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 - 20:08
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Itchy Bootmore
post Fri, 20 Oct 2017 - 15:24
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I've spent the last 2 decades driving on motroways, mainly in the South East n West - Midlands UK but on occasion much further North.
I hate lane hoggers
I hate rear end lane hoggers who tailgate in an attempt to force progress
I hate people who undertake to prove a point
I hate people who change lanes without signalling their intentions
I hate people who change multiple lanes without signalling their intentions
I hate peole who don't drive on the left when it is plainly clear and safe to do so
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


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typefish
post Fri, 20 Oct 2017 - 15:49
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 19 Oct 2017 - 20:39) *
One example is agency for ASDA.Employed drivers at Asda tend to do all the store work which they were welcome to. Agencys covered the Trunking work,mainly secure loads (no stopping) no nights out and often one drop.I dont know who supplies them or the opportunities in your area and the rates will likely differ slightly on agency and demand.
When i was there i worked a 4 on 4 off.Unfortunatly ive had a clear out of text messages recently so cant quote exact figures but believe me £14 on a weekend would be sniggered at......From bed.
When i was at DHL/Milestone i would often work a friday,do a night out sat and work the sunday and then spend the rest of my week counting it all.


I seem to recall my dad making more money from overtime alone driving HGVs at Morrisons in a 4 week period than I would make on a salary of £25k in a month

This post has been edited by typefish: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 - 15:50
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oldstoat
post Fri, 20 Oct 2017 - 17:18
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 19 Oct 2017 - 20:39) *
One example is agency for ASDA.Employed drivers at Asda tend to do all the store work which they were welcome to. Agencys covered the Trunking work,mainly secure loads (no stopping) no nights out and often one drop.I dont know who supplies them or the opportunities in your area and the rates will likely differ slightly on agency and demand.
When i was there i worked a 4 on 4 off.Unfortunatly ive had a clear out of text messages recently so cant quote exact figures but believe me £14 on a weekend would be sniggered at......From bed.
When i was at DHL/Milestone i would often work a friday,do a night out sat and work the sunday and then spend the rest of my week counting it all.



Thanks Fedup2. Whilst I understand that you have deleted text messages, I think you may have misunderstood my request. I asked where in the UK, these rates are being offered for agency work. Is it the South East, Inside the M25, the SW, the Midlands, East Anglia, Yorkshire and Humber, the North East, the North West, Wales, or Scotland?

If you could give me a clue as to the location, of these rates, it would allow me to go online and look for tramping jobs in those areas, especially as you say three days work allowed you to take four days off. Even on that basis , I could afford motel and travel and still be quids in.

This post has been edited by oldstoat: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 - 17:55


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