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20mph on the motorway
glasgow_bhoy
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 21:48
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Noticing a couple of posters in the speeding forum for exceeding 20mph on variable motorways.

Does anyone understand the reasoning behind these speed limits?

Personally anything under 50mph on the motorway makes me feel quite vulnerable!
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post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 21:48
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peterguk
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 21:54
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QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 22:48) *
Personally anything under 50mph on the motorway makes me feel quite vulnerable!


Why?


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Jlc
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 22:04
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It's a money making scheme. ninja.gif


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glasgow_bhoy
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 06:06
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 22:54) *
QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 22:48) *
Personally anything under 50mph on the motorway makes me feel quite vulnerable!


Why?

Sitting at 50 (lower speed limit or whatever) when you've got traffic passing in the next lane at 70/80 and a car coming up behind you fast... its an accident waiting to happen!
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peterguk
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 08:25
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QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 07:06) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 22:54) *
QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 22:48) *
Personally anything under 50mph on the motorway makes me feel quite vulnerable!


Why?

Sitting at 50 (lower speed limit or whatever) when you've got traffic passing in the next lane at 70/80 and a car coming up behind you fast... its an accident waiting to happen!


OK, I assumed everyone would be doing same speed. No one takes any notice of limits in Scotland?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 08:46


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typefish
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 08:41
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I wonder if this means that the NSAC20 course would be offered instead of vanilla NSAC?

Additionally, I presumed speed limits that were manually set disabled the enforcement system?
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seank
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 10:22
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Speed limits are set arbitrarily.
People think a 30mph limit outside a school seems sensible.
The same limit for a Lamborghini as a Dennis cement mixer, carrying 8 cubic metres of load, with brakes for the 1970s.
The same limit at 3:00am as at 8:30am
The same limit on Sunday as any other day
The same limit on an icy winter morning as in mid-summer.

20mph on a motorway is arbitrarily set. It might as well be 19mph, 21mph or any other. If we prosecuted people as a result of careless or dangerous driving, most of us would respect the traffic laws. As it is, people are fined or given points when there are no victims.
I have sharp knives in my kitchen. Am I to be charged with potential to murder?
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Steve_999
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:10
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QUOTE (seank @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:22) *
. . . .
I have sharp knives in my kitchen. Am I to be charged with potential to murder?


Not heard of that one! What legislation does that offence fall under?
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The Rookie
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:38
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QUOTE (seank @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:22) *
People think a 30mph limit outside a school seems sensible.
The same limit at 3:00am as at 8:30am
The same limit on Sunday as any other day
The same limit on an icy winter morning as in mid-summer.

20mph on a motorway is arbitrarily set.

So you argue for variable speed limits to suite the conditions and then state they are set arbitrarily when that is exactly what happens, as an example of the logic you want it falls flat on it's face spectacularly!


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Mat_Shamus
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:40
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:25) *
OK, I assumed everyone would be doing same speed. No one takes any notice of limits in Scotland?


Not on the M8 they don't.
I've had people driving up behind me about 80mph then sit behind me flashing their lights for me to speed up even though i'm doing 50mph in the inside lane on a 50mph limit


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Tartarus
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 13:53
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QUOTE (Mat_Shamus @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 12:40) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:25) *
OK, I assumed everyone would be doing same speed. No one takes any notice of limits in Scotland?


Not on the M8 they don't.

Neither on the M25 for the most part either.
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progbloke
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 14:27
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 14:53) *
QUOTE (Mat_Shamus @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 12:40) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:25) *
OK, I assumed everyone would be doing same speed. No one takes any notice of limits in Scotland?


Not on the M8 they don't.

Neither on the M25 for the most part either.


Just balancing out the inordinate amounts of time they spend stationary or having to do less than 20mph smile.gif
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Raxiel
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 15:05
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QUOTE (Mat_Shamus @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 12:40) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:25) *
OK, I assumed everyone would be doing same speed. No one takes any notice of limits in Scotland?


Not on the M8 they don't.
I've had people driving up behind me about 80mph then sit behind me flashing their lights for me to speed up even though I'm doing 50mph in the inside lane on a 50mph limit

Always makes me laugh when they do that, I'm sure it intimidates some people but it just encourages me to ease off.

Once it happened on a dual carriageway with one lane coned off so he couldn't pass. I had the cruise set to 50 (by sat-nav, not even the more conservative speed on the needle), all the way through I could see him bouncing around in the seat of his discovery mouthing obscenities at me. I've been stood on the other side of those cones pal, I ain't breaking the law just to please you.

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TheDisapprovingB...
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:20
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QUOTE (seank @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:22) *
I have sharp knives in my kitchen. Am I to be charged with potential to murder?


If you're doing 40mph in a 40mph zone, that's like having your sharp knives in your kitchen - perfectly legal and nobody will be concerned.

If you're doing 40mph in a 20mph zone, that's like taking your sharp knives with you when you walk the dog. You're likely to find yourself being charged with an offence (speeding/possession of an offensive weapon)
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seank
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 17:42
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I find that people are being obtuse today.
The point I tried to make was that imposing an arbitrary 20mph limit on a motorway is to increase safety.
If someone has an accident at 19mph, due to careless driving, they deserve prosecution. The speed is irrelevant.
If they have no accident, on a deserted motorway, whilst driving at 70mph within a 20mph limit, what exactly is the harm?
My kitchen knives do absolutely no harm, but if I'm out in a public place and attack someone with them I deserve prosecution.
If I drive past a school at 3:00am at 60mph when the arbitrary limit is 20mph, so what?
This isn't Red China, so who are these bodies to dictate what we should or shouldn't do?
A bloke sitting in the council offices has no idea what the traffic situation is in front of me now, what vehicle I'm driving, what the weather conditions are or my driving competence.
We may as well go back to having a man with a red flag and a UK max speed of 4mph.
Brake would then want it reducing to 3mph.
This country is crackers.
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glasgow_bhoy
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 21:05
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QUOTE (Mat_Shamus @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 12:40) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:25) *
OK, I assumed everyone would be doing same speed. No one takes any notice of limits in Scotland?


Not on the M8 they don't.
I've had people driving up behind me about 80mph then sit behind me flashing their lights for me to speed up even though i'm doing 50mph in the inside lane on a 50mph limit

+1. There are various sections of the M8 where you can sit at 80 and the majority of traffic is still passing you.

The 50 area before the Kingston Bridge is generally closer to 70, and the area around Glasgow airport which is a 60/50 is generally flowing at 70/80.

People (quite rightly) ignore the already low speed limits, and generally pay even less attention to the temporary ones.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 07:07
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QUOTE (seank @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 18:42) *
I find that people are being obtuse today.
The point I tried to make was that imposing an arbitrary 20mph limit on a motorway is to increase safety.
If someone has an accident at 19mph, due to careless driving, they deserve prosecution. The speed is irrelevant.
If they have no accident, on a deserted motorway, whilst driving at 70mph within a 20mph limit, what exactly is the harm?

On the subject of being obtuse, on what basis do you assume the 20 limit is set arbitrarily? The system will normally only reduce speeds to 40mph (the most efficient speed for vehicle passage) so it has been set to a 20 for a reason, a reason you may not be party to, or agree with if you were, but it exists, so arbitrarily, no.

As its been set for a reason, then doing 70 just because you don't know the reason doesn't make it safe.

Good driving is about risk assessment, the 20 limit tells you that someone has decided there is a significant risk ahead, just because you can't see it doesn't mean you shouldn't assess the potential risks and act accordingly, and most sensible people will slow to that limit.


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TheDisapprovingB...
post Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 07:48
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QUOTE (seank @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 18:42) *
A bloke sitting in the council offices has no idea what the traffic situation is in front of me now, what vehicle I'm driving, what the weather conditions are or my driving competence.


Quite right. So, to account for that, the law caters for the lowest common denominator. It would be nice if everybody had the common sense to drive to the conditions without the need for any speed limits at all, but there's always somebody who thinks they're the greatest driver in the world and should be allowed to drive past a school at 8:30am doing 80mph.

A person can be smart. People as a whole are idiots. This is why we can't have nice things.
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emsgeorge
post Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 08:46
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QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 08:48) *
QUOTE (seank @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 18:42) *
A bloke sitting in the council offices has no idea what the traffic situation is in front of me now, what vehicle I'm driving, what the weather conditions are or my driving competence.


Quite right. So, to account for that, the law caters for the lowest common denominator. It would be nice if everybody had the common sense to drive to the conditions without the need for any speed limits at all, but there's always somebody who thinks they're the greatest driver in the world and should be allowed to drive past a school at 8:30am doing 80mph.

A person can be smart. People as a whole are idiots. This is why we can't have nice things.



A bloke sat in an office has no idea of what's going on in the road. And thus the speed limit.

However .......

The bloke who sets that 20mph limit is sat in a regional control centre, with access to flow patterns, volume of traffic information, and most importantly, a gut load of CCTV cameras.

Those cameras must of been seeing something dangerous which required a 20mph limit. be it a car on its roof, or similar. Just because its cleared by the time you got there, doesn't mean its not dangerous.

A story if you will.

I was sat not more than 4 weeks ago in a HE control room, trying to work out a camera issue. This exact limit was applied, due to some prat joining the wrong road, and becoming oncoming traffic. On the M3.

The camera operator spotted it. The controller put a 20mph for about 5 miles back. HE officers were deployed, as well as traffic police.

It all ended 5 or so mins later when they realised and pulled over to the hard shoulder of their own accord.

Those cars more than a few hundred yards away would of now known what was going on. It caused miles of tailbacks even at about 11am.

Bow to the greater knowledge of technology and the eye in the sky. They aren't doing it to be a dick.......
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fedup2
post Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 08:53
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QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 08:48) *
QUOTE (seank @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 18:42) *
A bloke sitting in the council offices has no idea what the traffic situation is in front of me now, what vehicle I'm driving, what the weather conditions are or my driving competence.


Quite right. So, to account for that, the law caters for the lowest common denominator. It would be nice if everybody had the common sense to drive to the conditions without the need for any speed limits at all, but there's always somebody who thinks they're the greatest driver in the world and should be allowed to drive past a school at 8:30am doing 80mph.

A person can be smart. People as a whole are idiots. This is why we can't have nice things.




On that basis we should all be using plastic knifes and forks.
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