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Bromley PCN Loading Bay Out of Hours
Driving is Easy
post Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 00:47
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Hi Everyone,

This might be an easy one but I'm posting it anyway.

I've received a PCN Code: 02 'parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force'.

Now I read the sign before parking and the sign has loading times, therefore I suggest that parking outside of the these hours is ok. The date was Tuesday 26/11/19 and the time of the contravention was 21:58 to 21:59 so one minute!

This is the second time that I've received a ticket in this borough for parking in a zone outside of the controlled hours. I appealed the last one and won smile.gif
I've read a few posts here but they apply to loading bays without a parking times. This sign states:
Mon-Sat 8:30am - 6:30pm
Sun 10am-5pm
15mins
No return within 2 hours

Did I commit a contravention or not please? All replies will be observed.
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This post has been edited by Driving is Easy: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 00:48
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post Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 00:47
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stamfordman
post Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 08:43
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The 02 contravention is for parking where there are waiting restrictions (eg yellow lines) with a loading restrection (eg marked with kerb blips). What you're showing is a bay sign.

So - show us the exact google street view link of where you were and get and post the council's pics.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 08:43
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cp8759
post Thu, 28 Nov 2019 - 00:46
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Was this north or south of this junction? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4024817,0...6384!8i8192

If north, we need to see the signs at the entrance of the pedestrian zone.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Driving is Easy
post Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 13:46
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I was parked next to the cinema in a bay: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4068174,0.0...6384!8i8192

Does that help?
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stamfordman
post Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 13:51
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We must see the council's pics. If you were in that bay and it's still the same signed bay - bear in mind what you are showing is something from last April - then the PCN may be a nonsense but CP seems to think there is a new zone there.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 13:54
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DancingDad
post Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 14:12
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Jeez, that's nasty.
As Stamford says, we really need to see the CEO pics.

Google says you were in a Restricted Zone, though I cannot find the entry signs, this is a repeater.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4068189,0.0...33;1b1!2i40
Which needs no yellow lines.

So council will say that out of hours the loading bay does not exist and the underlying restricted zone prohibition kicks in.
Which is rubbish.
The loading bay cannot coexist with a No Waiting "At Any Time" restriction.
Therefore, it must be made clear on signage what happens when.
My opinion is the same as yours, during operational times the loading bay is a loading bay, outside of those times, it is simply a parking bay.
That is what the signage says, any other interpretation falls foul of the requirement for restrictions to be adequately signed.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 14:13
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cp8759
post Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 18:08
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I agree with DancingDad, but we need to see the council pics. Entry signs are here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4060067,0.0...6384!8i8192 and say "except in signed bays", you were in a signed bay so the RPZ restrictions cannot apply.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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DancingDad
post Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 18:32
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 18:08) *
...…….... Entry signs are here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4060067,0.0...6384!8i8192 …………….


No wonder I could not find them.... I stopped looking when yellow lines appeared.
You cannot have yellow lines in a restricted parking zone !!!!
Direct from TSRGD 2016 Sch 1 Definitions
QUOTE
“restricted parking zone”
an area—
(a) into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been indicated by a sign which includes the symbol and legend at item 2 of the sign table in Part 3 of Schedule 5; and
(b) in which none of the road markings at items 1 to 4 of the sign table in Part 4 of Schedule 7 has been placed


The markings at items 1-4 are DYLs, SYLs and double or single kerb blips.

Which makes a mockery of their Zone Entry signs, the aware motorist may miss them but if they look around and see DYLs, they know KNOW that they are not in an RPZ.

Right dogs dinner of enforcement and signage.
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Driving is Easy
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:44
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Hi everyone,

Thank you for your advice but you appear to have the wrong links. The most update to date link is the one that I provided as the Empire is no longer existing and it is now a Picturehouse. The link I sent shows the Picturehouse building being refurbished as the Guinet shop is still there: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4068174,0.0...6384!8i8192

The images from the council website are here:
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As you enter the zone it states that it is a 'controlled zone from mon-sat 6:30am-6:30pm, sun 10am-5pm'. Then about 500m down further down the sign says 'restricted parking zone no loading. at any time except in signed bays'. It's a bit confusing to be honest. However from the council pics I see that I was half parked in the bay, but I wasn't loading I was parked - is this merely a technicality on my part?

Any advice welcomed.
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cp8759
post Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 16:55
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It looks to me like your car is mostly out of the bay, in which case you were in breach of the Restricted Parking Zone. The RPZ controls apply in the whole zone and require no yellow lines.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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