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Motorist hit with penalty fine - for parking on stranger's driveway
peodude
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 18:30
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QUOTE
A cheeky driver has been fined by police - after being caught parking on a stranger's driveway.

The motorist was among 16 drivers ticketed in a police blitz on bad parking near Moor Green Primary School in Moseley .

Other drivers were ticketed for speeding, leaving their car in a dangerous position or causing an obstruction in Moor Green Lane.

Police posted pictures of offenders - including a Skoda driver who had parked on someone else’s driveway.


https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midla...arking-14917134

I was under the impression there was no legislation allowing for enforcement of cars parked on other peoples drives?
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post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 18:30
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 18:38
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Careless driving now it's a FPN offence? Stretching it a bit perhaps.

Or just give them a ticket for any non endorsable offence and see if they want a day out in mags.
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DancingDad
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 19:27
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Probably obstruction and let the court sort it out if the guy doesn't pay the FPN.
Those done for Leaving a Vehicle in a Dangerous Position will be smarting under 3 points as well as a fine.
Cops in Birmingham on these parking sweeps seem to like that one.
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nigelbb
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 07:29
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QUOTE (peodude @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 19:30) *
QUOTE
A cheeky driver has been fined by police - after being caught parking on a stranger's driveway.

The motorist was among 16 drivers ticketed in a police blitz on bad parking near Moor Green Primary School in Moseley .

Other drivers were ticketed for speeding, leaving their car in a dangerous position or causing an obstruction in Moor Green Lane.

Police posted pictures of offenders - including a Skoda driver who had parked on someone else’s driveway.


https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midla...arking-14917134

I was under the impression there was no legislation allowing for enforcement of cars parked on other peoples drives?

There is certainly no specific legislation although I suppose they could always try some sort of catch all offence like behaviour likely to occasion a breach of the peace but I doubt it. I suspect that it's just an overenthusiastic try-on that will come to nothing when challenged.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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The Rookie
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 09:12
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Unnecessary obstruction has to be 'on a road'....

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/10...lation/103/made


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DancingDad
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 09:22
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 08:29) *
...…... I suspect that it's just an overenthusiastic try-on that will come to nothing when challenged.



If it is challenged.
Majority do not contest parking penalties whether civil or private.
When faced with an FPN for whatever and the threat of court inherent with that, plus that the driver knows they were being cheeky anyway, I doubt they will challenge.
IMO if it was an obstruction related charge, they would be hard pushed to challenge successfully anyway, they are obstructing the use of the driveway by the residents of that property.
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typefish
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 09:22
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The police in Brum have a tendency to make things up when it comes to motoring law, from what I can see!
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nigelbb
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:07
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 08:29) *
...…... I suspect that it's just an overenthusiastic try-on that will come to nothing when challenged.



If it is challenged.
Majority do not contest parking penalties whether civil or private.
When faced with an FPN for whatever and the threat of court inherent with that, plus that the driver knows they were being cheeky anyway, I doubt they will challenge.
IMO if it was an obstruction related charge, they would be hard pushed to challenge successfully anyway, they are obstructing the use of the driveway by the residents of that property.

Obstruction has to be on a road. It may be cheeky but it's not illegal & issuing an FPN is an abuse of process.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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The Rookie
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:14
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:07) *
is an abuse of process.

Is it? Please clarify why you say that.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:44
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Even though the parking was off road I can see that driving to get there would meet this test

Driving without reasonable consideration
The offence of driving without reasonable consideration under section 3 of the RTA 1988 is committed only when other persons are inconvenienced by the manner of the defendant's driving, see section 3ZA(4) RTA 1988.
The maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. The court must also either endorse the driver's licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points (unless there are "special reasons" not to do so), or impose disqualification for a fixed period and/or until a driving test has been passed. The penalty is the same as for driving without due care and attention.
A driving without due consideration charge is more appropriate where the inconvenience is aimed at and suffered by other road users.


https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-...iving-incidents


This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:44


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DancingDad
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 10:50
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:07) *
.........Obstruction has to be on a road. It may be cheeky but it's not illegal & issuing an FPN is an abuse of process.


True but at the moment, we are guessing what any FPN may be citing.
Tongue in cheek but parking in a dangerous position or causing a danger to road users.... Both of which could apply as it would be dangerous to whoever parked should the householder get violent smile.gif
Or driving on land not a public road.... there is a get out that there is a 15 yard caveat to park on land when parking so defendable.
Or careless or inconsiderate driving... not careless but does seem a tad inconsiderate.


I stick with my opinion that whoever got an FPN would not fight it anyway, may not be the law but does seem like justice.
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southpaw82
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 12:11
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:44) *
I can see that driving to get there would meet this test

Driving without reasonable consideration

Really? How?


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nigelbb
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 12:29
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:50) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:07) *
.........Obstruction has to be on a road. It may be cheeky but it's not illegal & issuing an FPN is an abuse of process.


True but at the moment, we are guessing what any FPN may be citing.
Tongue in cheek but parking in a dangerous position or causing a danger to road users.... Both of which could apply as it would be dangerous to whoever parked should the householder get violent smile.gif
Or driving on land not a public road.... there is a get out that there is a 15 yard caveat to park on land when parking so defendable.
Or careless or inconsiderate driving... not careless but does seem a tad inconsiderate.


I stick with my opinion that whoever got an FPN would not fight it anyway, may not be the law but does seem like justice.

No it's not justice. I'm not endorsing their actions but if they were dropping their kids off the car would only be there for minutes if that & stopping on a drive is far less dangerous or obnoxious than on a pavement, bend, zig-zags, DYLs etc.

It looks like there is a dropped kerb with a proper driveway so I don't see that there is any moving traffic offence. Any obstruction is of the garage door on private land.

Presumably the householder complained or how else would the police know that the car didn't belong in the drive?


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 12:38
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:11) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:44) *
I can see that driving to get there would meet this test

Driving without reasonable consideration

Really? How?


The manner of driving was such that inconvenience is caused. (aiming for the persons driveway) it is aimed at the homeowner/occupier and they would suffer inconvenience

Would it stand up in court? I don't know, but it should IMO you cannot be allowed to use a vehicle with such disregard for others


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DancingDad
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 12:53
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:29) *
...….No it's not justice. I'm not endorsing their actions but if they were dropping their kids off the car would only be there for minutes if that & stopping on a drive is far less dangerous or obnoxious than on a pavement, bend, zig-zags, DYLs etc.

It looks like there is a dropped kerb with a proper driveway so I don't see that there is any moving traffic offence. Any obstruction is of the garage door on private land.
……..


Someone parking in another's drive, even if only for a few minutes, is something often said to be untouchable but I would be livid and demanding that the law sorts it out.
I understand that normally it needs a court order with appropriate notice before you could lawfully remove it.

If that is the law, it is not justice and never can be that an inconsiderate person can usurp your property and leave you with no immediate remedy.
Justice may be unlawful, such as making sure that the vehicle could not move under it's own steam or needed a new paint job but I am fairly certain that the man on the Clapham Omnibus would approve and call it justice.
The law is not always just nor is justice always the law.

Cannot be excused by saying is better then parking on ZZs etc, it is still wrong.
Cue here for saying if they are picking kids up from school, the walk from a proper parking spot would do them and the kids some good. smile.gif

I am tending towards inconsiderate driving BTW, an offence under RTA 1988 S3 and the definitions under 3ZA seeming to fit.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents
I'm assuming this is still valid but someone will tell me if it is not smile.gif
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seank
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:03
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I've never read such tenuous links to a trumped-up charge.
It's a civil matter if I park on someone else's drive. Nothing to do with the criminal law.
The car is causing no obstruction and there is nothing to say it was carelessly, recklessly or dangerously driven there.
I'd be straight onto the Chief Con to request the training records for Plod who issued a ticket.
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Redivi
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:07
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He has to either pay the Fixed Penalty or reject it and request that it's dealt with by the magistrates

The police might back down if they believe the FPN is questionable but, if they do prosecute, he had better hope for a Guilty verdict

The case is bound to attract publicity and, if he wins, there will an open invitation to park in HIS driveway and there will be nothing he can do about it

Better still, park in his neighbours' driveways who won't be amused by the results of the idiot's actions
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southpaw82
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:30
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:38) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:11) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:44) *
I can see that driving to get there would meet this test

Driving without reasonable consideration

Really? How?


The manner of driving was such that inconvenience is caused. (aiming for the persons driveway) it is aimed at the homeowner/occupier and they would suffer inconvenience

Would it stand up in court? I don't know, but it should IMO you cannot be allowed to use a vehicle with such disregard for others

I can’t see how the person allegedly inconvenienced is another road user though. They may want to be a road user and are prevented from doing so but they aren’t, at that time, a road user.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 15:00
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 15:30) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:38) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:11) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 11:44) *
I can see that driving to get there would meet this test

Driving without reasonable consideration

Really? How?


The manner of driving was such that inconvenience is caused. (aiming for the persons driveway) it is aimed at the homeowner/occupier and they would suffer inconvenience

Would it stand up in court? I don't know, but it should IMO you cannot be allowed to use a vehicle with such disregard for others

I can’t see how the person allegedly inconvenienced is another road user though. They may want to be a road user and are prevented from doing so but they aren’t, at that time, a road user.


If the person who complained was trying to park on their drive, they would be a road user at the appropriate time and inconvenienced by the driving of the Skoda driver.
Admittedly the real inconvenience only occurred once the driver left "a road or a public place" and parked so does become a chicken and egg situation.
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seank
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 16:01
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People being on a road are an inconvenience. Traffic queues, parking and all the rest are just a nuisance.
As a BMW owner, I reckon we own the roads and everyone else should know their place.
For that reason, there are traffic laws which most people abide by, except for most of those asking for help here.
I can see no traffic law preventing me parking in someone else's drive. Therefore, I can see no reason for a penalty ticket. As I wrote already, I'd be straight onto Chief Con, asking him to explain what law has been broken.
Then I'd ask the Daily Fail to print an article publicising abuse of Plod powers.
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