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alex salmond, is this maintenance
oldstoat
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 17:22
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Mr Salmond has crowd funded for his legal fees. Is this not a case of maintenance. Those putting up the money have no interest in the case.


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post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 17:22
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henrik777
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 17:33
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It's a judicial review.
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Glacier2
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 17:35
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Champerty and Maintenance springs to mind. I would have thought that Alex S would not be short of a bob or two.

Is litigation funding illegal in the UK?
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oldstoat
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 17:46
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maybe not Champerty, but I would say Maintenance


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cp8759
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 18:13
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 18:22) *
Mr Salmond has crowd funded for his legal fees. Is this not a case of maintenance. Those putting up the money have no interest in the case.

In England & Wales litigation funding is permissible if those funding it do so for the purpose of allowing access to justice, not sure if there's been a similar ruling in Scotland though.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 18:42
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Does Scotland even recognise the concept? It’s based in common law in England.


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henrik777
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 19:10
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 19:42) *
Does Scotland even recognise the concept? It’s based in common law in England.


No.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 20:11
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I don't think Salmond cares if it is legal. If it is, he gets the power of loads if people putting their hand in their pocket for him in the most high profile fashion - "crowdfunding" will guarantee you column inches even if you're only tapping a few mates.

If it is illegal and he has to give the money back it will be establishment Vs Salmond, isn't it terribly unfair, and he has the money himself anyway.

I was listening to Radio 4 this morning and they said "for many years [he] was the SNP". They're euligising him and all for a relatively pedestrian sexual harassment allegation. Heads he wins, tails he wins.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 20:12
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glasgow_bhoy
post Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 18:22
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I don't rush to defend Salmond. I think hes a glory hunter and a very arrogant guy. That said, the most charismatic UK politician I'm aware of in the past 25 years.

I really don't believe hes guilty of this- the facts will all come out in the end, but with all the sex scandals coming out the past few years, and the fact these allegations are based on a time before the Indy vote, I'd have thought the victim would have made the complaint when he was more in the public eye. Why hold off for years before saying a word?

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StuartBu
post Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 18:50
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QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 19:22) *
Why hold off for years before saying a word?

You could ask that of most of these sort of allegations.
Odd how the two allegations were made so close together!
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glasgow_bhoy
post Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 07:08
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 19:50) *
QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 19:22) *
Why hold off for years before saying a word?

You could ask that of most of these sort of allegations.
Odd how the two allegations were made so close together!

I think the really historic ones carried out before the Saville reveal may be real, as there were clear cover ups by organisations when they were reported.

However any allegations in the past 5 years I'd expect to be reported very quickly, given the current hype on the matter which means even the most minor allegations are taken seriously and investigated by employers, police and media alike.

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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 13:31
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Why would they be reported quickly when the balance of power is so disproportionate? You can see here right of wrong Salmond is raising loads of money and has half the SNP saying what a decent chap he is.

The people reporting it risk their and their families being dragged through the tabloid mangle.

Often these things only come out after considerable counselling. People are very good at repressing traumatic experiences or have low self worth which prevents immediate reporting.

The police carry out psychological evaluations on people making these reports which should pull out people making malicious allegations, although of course these aren't infallible which is why a court ultimately decided.
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henrik777
post Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 13:41
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 14:31) *
The police carry out psychological evaluations on people making these reports which should pull out people making malicious allegations, although of course these aren't infallible which is why a court ultimately decided.


A judicial review has nothing to do with guilt or indeed a finding, or not, as the case may be. The accusers do not take part in the judicial review.

Are the Scottish governments procedures sufficiently fair ? That's what the judicial review is being asked. That's what they'll answer. Pretty simple when you don't think about whether Alex Salmond is a to$$er or not.

This post has been edited by henrik777: Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 13:42
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nigelbb
post Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 17:11
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QUOTE (henrik777 @ Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 14:41) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 14:31) *
The police carry out psychological evaluations on people making these reports which should pull out people making malicious allegations, although of course these aren't infallible which is why a court ultimately decided.


A judicial review has nothing to do with guilt or indeed a finding, or not, as the case may be. The accusers do not take part in the judicial review.

Are the Scottish governments procedures sufficiently fair ? That's what the judicial review is being asked. That's what they'll answer. Pretty simple when you don't think about whether Alex Salmond is a to$$er or not.

He hasn't been accused of any crime & you must wonder why the Scottish Parliament is involving itself rather than the police. According to the Daily Record the alleged behaviour is criminal. If the behaviour was not criminal but could be considered inappropriate in the workplace then as he is no longer a member then there is no sanction that could be applied.


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henrik777
post Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 17:43
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 18:11) *
QUOTE (henrik777 @ Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 14:41) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 1 Sep 2018 - 14:31) *
The police carry out psychological evaluations on people making these reports which should pull out people making malicious allegations, although of course these aren't infallible which is why a court ultimately decided.


A judicial review has nothing to do with guilt or indeed a finding, or not, as the case may be. The accusers do not take part in the judicial review.

Are the Scottish governments procedures sufficiently fair ? That's what the judicial review is being asked. That's what they'll answer. Pretty simple when you don't think about whether Alex Salmond is a to$$er or not.

According to the Daily Record


https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13221...dnt-get-away-it - The Daily Record may have an agenda. Trust their "journalism" at your peril.
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Unzippy
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 05:16
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 18:22) *
Mr Salmond has crowd funded for his legal fees. Is this not a case of maintenance. Those putting up the money have no interest in the case.



The crowd funder is to challenge the Scottish Government's procedures for handling complaints of this nature. Not to challenge the allegations themselves or to "clear his name". From what I've read the area of disagreement is focused on two elements:

1. Under the current procedures the accused is not permitted to know what the allegations are, when they were alleged to have happened or to prepare a defence.

2. The leaking of confidential information by a senior civil servant which may prejudice the case and deny the accused a fair hearing and/or the alleged victims a fair hearing and the anonymity they deserve.

I take no view on his guilt or innocence but find trial by tabloid profoundly disturbing for any individual of any political persuasion (see recent Cliff Richard allegations as an example). The alleged victims have a right to make allegations without fear of being exposed and he has the right to presumed innocence until proven guilty.

To repeat, the crowd funder is NOT for the purposes of "clearing his name" but rather for the purposes of challenging the Scottish Government procedures that prevent him from knowing what he is alleged to have done or to prepare a defence of the allegations.

Regardless of the outcome of the above, Police Scotland will make a decision on whether the matter progresses to court where he can presumably spend his own money to "clear his name" or otherwise

Alex Salmond has a polarising effect on people and many have strong negative feelings towards him, but he still deserves the right to a fair trial based on the presumption of innocence. The UK justice system is in deep trouble if this isn't available to people we dislike as much as those we like.

Social media is swamped this week (as always) by people reading tabloid headlines, not bothering to discover the facts, and making fools of themselves very publicly.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 09:36
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This is probably the best summary (on a single page) of the history and current state of play. the key line being "A Judicial Review will consider whether a proper "decision-making process" was followed by the Scottish government. It will not look at whether or not the "correct" decision was made."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45295578


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666
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 12:18
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QUOTE (Unzippy @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 06:16) *
Alex Salmond has a polarising effect on people and many have strong negative feelings towards him, but he still deserves the right to a fair trial based on the presumption of innocence. The UK justice system is in deep trouble if this isn't available to people we dislike as much as those we like.

Scottish justice system, Shirley? There is no UK system.

This post has been edited by 666: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 12:19
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The Rookie
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 12:55
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And it the Scottish parliament internal disciplinary system and nothing to do with either the Scottish justice system or either of the other 2 in the UK that is under the spotlight.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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