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Disabled bay specification
flexeh
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 14:13
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Hi All is there a specification about in street disabled bays. We have one on our street marked up, there’s no plates, it just says the words disabled next to it. The bay itself is just the width of a car. Just watched a couple of enforcement officers ticket a car and said that it’s legal as it says disabled.

This post has been edited by flexeh: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 14:15
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post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 14:13
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stamfordman
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 16:05
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QUOTE (flexeh @ Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 15:13) *
Hi All is there a specification about in street disabled bays. We have one on our street marked up, there’s no plates, it just says the words disabled next to it. The bay itself is just the width of a car. Just watched a couple of enforcement officers ticket a car and said that it’s legal as it says disabled.



Until recently a disabled bay had to have a parking sign. There is a change in regulation that allows marked bays to have no sign but this is mainly intended for zones where reducing street clutter is the aim in my view.

A bay without a sign has been advisory only and not enforceable. If it has a traffic order it may mean the parking sign is missing.

Show us where this bay is on google street view

See this for a current case where this issue has come up.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=133806

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 16:06
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The Rookie
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 17:16
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This is a problem.

My council have advisory bays which look like a disabled bay without a sign, and they have de-cluttered bays which look like a disabled bay without a sign.... yup, no way of knowing which was which.


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stamfordman
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 17:58
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 18:16) *
they have de-cluttered bays which look like a disabled bay without a sign....



Where is this - are they on GSV?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 19:39
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The two locally are yet updated on GSV.


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cp8759
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 20:38
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 18:16) *
This is a problem.

My council have advisory bays which look like a disabled bay without a sign, and they have de-cluttered bays which look like a disabled bay without a sign.... yup, no way of knowing which was which.

Didn't we establish that "advisory" bays are illegal?


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The Rookie
post Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 07:53
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We did, but how do you get it removed?

Formal complaint to council, wont justify why they do it, the LGO wouldn’t hear my complaint as they said I wasn’t affected by it.

Since then (that was about 10 years ago) they’ve put more in.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 07:57


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cp8759
post Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 12:03
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PAP letter.


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stamfordman
post Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 16:32
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Many councils have advisory bays - they are just cheap ways of providing a BB holder with a bogus bay. Some councils still tell people they are enforceable.
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reca
post Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 16:54
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 13:03) *
PAP letter.



And what would be the legal basis of the claim?


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The Rookie
post Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 19:03
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 17:32) *
Many councils have advisory bays - they are just cheap ways of providing a BB holder with a bogus bay. Some councils still tell people they are enforceable.

Ours used to be visibly different to a real bay, a rectangle with a cross (think of a Saltire), still of dubious legality but at least you knew which was real and which was advisory.


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cp8759
post Thu, 4 Jun 2020 - 22:32
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QUOTE (reca @ Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 17:54) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 13:03) *
PAP letter.



And what would be the legal basis of the claim?

You'd have to think something up.


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flexeh
post Sun, 7 Jun 2020 - 11:29
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Sorry heres the bay

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3855687,-2....3312!8i6656
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cp8759
post Sun, 7 Jun 2020 - 11:47
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QUOTE (reca @ Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 17:54) *
And what would be the legal basis of the claim?

Just as an embryonic idea, you could seek standing as a person entitled to park in non-disabled bays as well as advisory disabled bays, and bring the claim on the basis that the council was failing to comply with LATOR 18(1) and its reasons for so doing lack any rational foundation.


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Neil B
post Mon, 8 Jun 2020 - 22:52
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Same in Waltham Forest and they finally started making orders for them last year. Except they've started with all those still needed and left the disused ones to 'float' while they prioritise.
Given the history, local disabled people now don't understand the rules. I'm still not sure if you can park . unlimited or at all, with a BB or if you have to have a disabled resident permit too.
Closely neighbouring Newham is completely different, adding to the confusion.

There needs to be a blanket national rule on this.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Tue, 9 Jun 2020 - 08:32
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 8 Jun 2020 - 23:52) *
There needs to be a blanket national rule on this.

But there is, it's just that councils ignore it.


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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 18 Jun 2020 - 08:00
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Advisory, dedicated user or normal disabled bay the road marking counts as a traffic sign ergo the bay it covers must be to the dimensions set out in the TSRGDs unless the County Council has a DfT exemption.

From GSV it's too narrow and probably not enforceable for that reason.

Mick
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 18 Jun 2020 - 08:56
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 18 Jun 2020 - 09:00) *
Advisory, dedicated user or normal disabled bay the road marking counts as a traffic sign ergo the bay it covers must be to the dimensions set out in the TSRGDs unless the County Council has a DfT exemption.

From GSV it's too narrow and probably not enforceable for that reason.

Mick


When you look at GSV does anyone see any parking sign at all along that street?


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