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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 18 Jan 2022 - 01:36
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Is there anyone who actually falls for this populist nonsense?

TV Licence frozen for those daft enough to pay it, saving 15p a week at a time where the tax burden is the highest for seventy years.

Royal Navy sent to the English Channel to... um... fire at migrants? Bump into them to sink their Decathlon dinghy? Both of which we know is never going to happen.

All on the day it was announced the government is writing off £4.3bn of covid loans because it forgot to check the person the money was going to is real.

We have a government attempting to control the narrative solely through amygdala hijacking. The primary reason it isn't working is because the Prime Minister has the oratory skills of a dying pigeon, and has surrounded himself by unlikable morons to ensure no-one looks better than him.

Oh for an alternative universe where Jeremy Hunt became PM. He may be no better, but at least he doesn't look like a drunk emerging from a hedge.
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post Tue, 18 Jan 2022 - 01:36
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mickR
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:28
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but in the case of the BBC it will
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stamfordman
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:32
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QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 09:49) *
´´History is littered with examples of the free market failing consumers´´,,, but is way outnumbered by all the benefits that the free market has given us, think cars, without competition we would be all driving around in state built Trabants, think mobile phones, we would all still be on 1g paying crippling monthly rates, the free market is the saviour of the working class.


Nearly all major innovations are the result of state funding in research and development. Almost everything in mobile technology came out of government funded research and from cooperative standards development.

Where do you think the internet came from?
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klx250s
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:52
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:32) *
QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 09:49) *
´´History is littered with examples of the free market failing consumers´´,,, but is way outnumbered by all the benefits that the free market has given us, think cars, without competition we would be all driving around in state built Trabants, think mobile phones, we would all still be on 1g paying crippling monthly rates, the free market is the saviour of the working class.


Nearly all major innovations are the result of state funding in research and development. Almost everything in mobile technology came out of government funded research and from cooperative standards development.

Where do you think the internet came from?



Holy Fook!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:28) *
but in the case of the BBC it will




It will what?
Do you know how to use this forum?
It helps if you at least give us a hint at who you are replying too,,,jeezzz dry.gif dry.gif dry.gif
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mickR
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:01
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QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:28) *
but in the case of the BBC it will


It will what?
Do you know how to use this forum?
It helps if you at least give us a hint at who you are replying too,,,jeezzz dry.gif dry.gif dry.gif


Most members already know if you post directly under the quote you're replying to you don't need to re post the previous quote.
you appear not to.... SIGH....
I know this is a bit alien to your tiny brain but thats why SP, (the moderator if you missed it) me and andy to name but 3 have mentioned your bloat quoting. you don't need to. thats only for ... oh what was the term Andy used?? oh yes.. fu@tards.

I don't know how to use the site? laugh.gif wink.gif laugh.gif says the bloke (oops did it again) neutral gender person who doesn't comprehend bloat quoting and doesn't know how to find members topics. jeeeeezzz indeed.
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klx250s
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:09
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:01) *
QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:28) *
but in the case of the BBC it will


It will what?
Do you know how to use this forum?
It helps if you at least give us a hint at who you are replying too,,,jeezzz dry.gif dry.gif dry.gif


Most members already know if you post directly under the quote you're replying to you don't need to re post the previous quote.
you appear not to.... SIGH....
I know this is a bit alien to your tiny brain but thats why SP, (the moderator if you missed it) me and andy to name but 3 have mentioned your bloat quoting. you don't need to. thats only for ... oh what was the term Andy used?? oh yes.. fu@tards.

I don't know how to use the site? laugh.gif wink.gif laugh.gif says the bloke (oops did it again) neutral gender person who doesn't comprehend bloat quoting and doesn't know how to find members topics. jeeeeezzz indeed.


I found your ´topics´ all 20 of them in 14 years,,,soz but I didn´t think I would have travel back that far in time Noah was skipping about in shorts, as for the rest of your comment,,,,,well seriously

QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:01) *
QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:28) *
but in the case of the BBC it will


It will what?
Do you know how to use this forum?
It helps if you at least give us a hint at who you are replying too,,,jeezzz dry.gif dry.gif dry.gif


Most members already know if you post directly under the quote you're replying to you don't need to re post the previous quote.
you appear not to.... SIGH....
I know this is a bit alien to your tiny brain but thats why SP, (the moderator if you missed it) me and andy to name but 3 have mentioned your bloat quoting. you don't need to. thats only for ... oh what was the term Andy used?? oh yes.. fu@tards.

I don't know how to use the site? laugh.gif wink.gif laugh.gif says the bloke (oops did it again) neutral gender person who doesn't comprehend bloat quoting and doesn't know how to find members topics. jeeeeezzz indeed.



´´Most members already know if you post directly under the quote you're replying to you don't need to re post the previous quote´´,,,,, and then Mickeyboy does just that lol!!!!
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Spandex
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:15
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QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:32) *

Nearly all major innovations are the result of state funding in research and development. Almost everything in mobile technology came out of government funded research and from cooperative standards development.

Where do you think the internet came from?


Holy Fook!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Well, in a lot of ways, he's not wrong. The work to standardise the technology, without which it could never be successful, is done by publicly funded standards bodies, working with industry representatives.

However, the standards are generally a collection of technologies and IP created by commercial entities - they 'donate' this work because they understand the value provided by common standards (and sometimes, unfortunately, because they're trying to get their patents and IP into a widely used standard so they can milk people for per-device licensing fees).

So, when it's working well, it's a healthy mix of state and corporate funding that allows these technological advances. It's rarely just down to competition between companies though - that may let you innovate within the existing framework, but doesn't really work for changes on a grander scale.

And keeping on topic, the BBC have developed huge parts of the technology and standards that you benefit from any time you watch TV (and I don't just mean if you watch BBC channels, or even UK TV). I've watched them do it, as I've sat in the same standards body meetings with them, and have visited their R&D team a number of times. If you want to watch Sky Sports in 4k, you'll be using an HDR technology called HLG, which was developed by the BBC and NHK (Japans license fee funded public broadcaster).

This post has been edited by Spandex: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:16
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mickR
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:18
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because you don't get the consept mate .. oops.

And for god sake stop making a fool of yourself!! i told you I'd posted 20 topics IN THE FLAME PIT you didn't find that. now toddle off and see if you can find how many other topics ive started not in the flame pit. you can pretend you're on an easter egg hunt looking for sweeties

QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:09) *
´Most members already know if you post directly under the quote you're replying to you don't need to re post the previous quote´´,,,,, and then Mickeyboy does just that lol!!!!

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klx250s
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:25
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:18) *
because you don't get the consept mate .. oops.

And for god sake stop making a fool of yourself!! i told you I'd posted 20 topics IN THE FLAME PIT you didn't find that. now toddle off and see if you can find how many other topics ive started not in the flame pit. you can pretend you're on an easter egg hunt looking for sweeties

QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:09) *
´Most members already know if you post directly under the quote you're replying to you don't need to re post the previous quote´´,,,,, and then Mickeyboy does just that lol!!!!



I´m well aware of the fact that you took 14 years to hit the big ´two o´, granted I had to trawl back fkn years of your trivial posts but I got there, my point being that you very rarely post but are an eager beaver to dive on others to post inane comments.
Now back to your comment about (fk knows what) ´´but in the case of the BBC it will´´,,,explain what ´´it will´´??????
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mickR
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:34
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as I've said I start genuine topics when needed not for egotistical needs. its not a competition to start the most topics another concept you can't understand

oh and its post "topics" not just posts. if your ask a grown up how to look for how many ",posts" ive made maybe you'll learn a bit more on how to use the site

This post has been edited by mickR: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:37
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klx250s
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:43
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QUOTE (Spandex @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:15) *
QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 15:32) *

Nearly all major innovations are the result of state funding in research and development. Almost everything in mobile technology came out of government funded research and from cooperative standards development.

Where do you think the internet came from?


Holy Fook!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Well, in a lot of ways, he's not wrong. The work to standardise the technology, without which it could never be successful, is done by publicly funded standards bodies, working with industry representatives.

However, the standards are generally a collection of technologies and IP created by commercial entities - they 'donate' this work because they understand the value provided by common standards (and sometimes, unfortunately, because they're trying to get their patents and IP into a widely used standard so they can milk people for per-device licensing fees).

So, when it's working well, it's a healthy mix of state and corporate funding that allows these technological advances. It's rarely just down to competition between companies though - that may let you innovate within the existing framework, but doesn't really work for changes on a grander scale.

And keeping on topic, the BBC have developed huge parts of the technology and standards that you benefit from any time you watch TV (and I don't just mean if you watch BBC channels, or even UK TV). I've watched them do it, as I've sat in the same standards body meetings with them, and have visited their R&D team a number of times. If you want to watch Sky Sports in 4k, you'll be using an HDR technology called HLG, which was developed by the BBC and NHK (Japans license fee funded public broadcaster).



´´The work to standardise the technology, without which it could never be successful, is done by publicly funded standards bodies´´, first off standardising something doesn´t really make it more succesful, secondly organisations that ´step up´ after the original concept has been developed by private investers are basically typical ´Johnny comes lately´looking for a piece of the action.

´´which was developed by the BBC and NHK´´,,, but was it developed in house or farmed out (as usual) to private companies/contractors, think Space Shuttle, paid for by NASA (tax payer funded) but was contacted out to the real brains out there in private corporations.

This post has been edited by klx250s: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:43
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Spandex
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:42
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QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:43) *
´´The work to standardise the technology, without which it could never be successful, is done by publicly funded standards bodies´´, first off standardising something doesn´t really make it more succesful, secondly organisations that ´step up´ after the original concept has been developed by private investers are basically typical ´Johnny comes lately´looking for a piece of the action.

Not even remotely accurate. If something isn't standardised it's very hard to make money from it outside the territory it was developed in. Also, by standardising, other companies can come in and make interoperable devices and services which make the technology more appealing and compelling to consumers (who don't want to spend money on what could become a technological deadend). Organisations are hardly 'stepping up' after the work has been done - they do the work that allows a lot of these things to actually launch into the existing market.
QUOTE (klx250s @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:43) *
´´which was developed by the BBC and NHK´´,,, but was it developed in house or farmed out (as usual) to private companies/contractors, think Space Shuttle, paid for by NASA (tax payer funded) but was contacted out to the real brains out there in private corporations.

It was developed in house. The BBC have (or had, it's a few years since I've worked with them) an incredibly talented R&D team. I met the guys working on HLG at the time - I was there for a meeting about something else, but got a tour and introduction to that team because it was something the company I worked for was also interested in.

HLG is actually an excellent example, because the reason BBC/NHK developed it was because all the commercial HDR systems weren't very good for broadcast TV, and live TV in particular. HLG was developed from the ground up to be backwards compatible with the existing workflow, so broadcasters wouldn't need to replace every component in the chain in order to support HDR. The HLG metadata passes right through everything from the OB truck to the TV untouched.

If that was left to the commercial providers, it would never have been developed because they were focused on the thing that they felt had the greatest demand, and therefore the greatest return on their investment. Broadcasters around the world would have just been left to slowly upgrade entire OB and headend infrastructure, with the customers ultimately suffering.

This post has been edited by Spandex: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:43
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andy_foster
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:54
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 14:32) *
Where do you think the internet came from?


It evolved from the US DoD's ArpaNet - which was "invented" by Al Gore insofar as he had a say in it being funded (an indecipherable ?truth).

The HyperText Tranfer Protocol (HTTP) aka the Wold Wide Web is a protocol that is commonly used on the internet and was developed by Sir Tim Berners Lee. It made use of hyperlinks - text which linked a URL - which was based on something that the BBC had a patent on. Whether the concept was sufficiently novel or creative for the patent to hold water is another matter.

Presumably this is what your question was aimed at?

The BBC has created a lot of worthwhile things. When the TV Licence was first introduced it was entirely appropriate that the few who owned TVs solely for the purpose of receiving programming from the BBC (and for showing off to the neighbours) paid for a licence which was in effect a compulsory subscription, in a time when there was no viable alternative other than funding through general taxation. Neither of these arguments justify the TV licence today.


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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 18:24
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QUOTE (Spandex @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:15) *
However, the standards are generally a collection of technologies and IP created by commercial entities


No that's not really true. Many innovations are created by government funded research in universities and grants. About half of all drugs come out of public research. The point is that commercial companies do not tend to invest in risky basic research. They tap it to develop and refine technologies, yes, but many of those technologies have their roots in public investment. And of course companies also benefit from subsidies (eg electric car makers).
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Spandex
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 18:55
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 18:24) *
QUOTE (Spandex @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 16:15) *
However, the standards are generally a collection of technologies and IP created by commercial entities


No that's not really true. Many innovations are created by government funded research in universities and grants. About half of all drugs come out of public research. The point is that commercial companies do not tend to invest in risky basic research. They tap it to develop and refine technologies, yes, but many of those technologies have their roots in public investment. And of course companies also benefit from subsidies (eg electric car makers).

I’ve sat in plenty of standards body meetings. I know how they work.
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stingo
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 19:19
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Foooooooooooook. The bbc


Impartial to them is like a banana does not need a skin, but stripped bear and blended until the flavour suits
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klx250s
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 20:20
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QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:34) *
as I've said I start genuine topics when needed not for egotistical needs. its not a competition to start the most topics another concept you can't understand

oh and its post "topics" not just posts. if your ask a grown up how to look for how many ",posts" ive made maybe you'll learn a bit more on how to use the site



´´as I've said I start genuine topics when needed´´,,,yea usually to coincide with the emergence of the Periodical Cicadas to give them a laff laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

I started a thread about eating cheese upside down and it got more interest than your last ten attempts laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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southpaw82
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 20:36
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Knock. It. Off.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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captain swoop
post Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 23:54
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Seems every thread on here ends up like this these days.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 02:11
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Wed, 19 Jan 2022 - 17:54) *
It made use of hyperlinks - text which linked a URL - which was based on something that the BBC had a patent on. Whether the concept was sufficiently novel or creative for the patent to hold water is another matter.

It was actually BT who claimed to have a patent on hyperlinks and tried to get ISPs to pay a licensing fee to use them.

Luckily BTs patent was worded by someone who had clearly never socialised with humans and so the case was thrown out when they tried it on in the US.

Patent for "hyperlinks" filed in 1976 read like this...

QUOTE
Information for display at a terminal apparatus of a computer is stored in blocks the first part of which contains the information which is actually displayed at the terminal and the second part of which contains information relating to the display and which may be used to influence the display at the time or in response to a keyboard entry signal.

For example, the second part of the block could include information for providing the complete address of an another block which would be selected by the operation of a selected key of the keyboard. The second part of the block could alternatively influence the format and/or color of the display at the terminal.

When a block is read from the store of the computer the second part is retained in another store which may be located in the terminal or in the computer itself or perhaps both. The invention is particularly useful in reducing the complexity of the operating protocol of the computer.
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Spandex
post Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 10:56
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 20 Jan 2022 - 02:11) *
It was actually BT who claimed to have a patent on hyperlinks and tried to get ISPs to pay a licensing fee to use them.

Luckily BTs patent was worded by someone who had clearly never socialised with humans and so the case was thrown out when they tried it on in the US.

Patent for "hyperlinks" filed in 1976 read like this...

QUOTE
Information for display at a terminal apparatus of a computer is stored in blocks the first part of which contains the information which is actually displayed at the terminal and the second part of which contains information relating to the display and which may be used to influence the display at the time or in response to a keyboard entry signal.

For example, the second part of the block could include information for providing the complete address of an another block which would be selected by the operation of a selected key of the keyboard. The second part of the block could alternatively influence the format and/or color of the display at the terminal.

When a block is read from the store of the computer the second part is retained in another store which may be located in the terminal or in the computer itself or perhaps both. The invention is particularly useful in reducing the complexity of the operating protocol of the computer.


To be honest, there's nothing wrong with the wording of that description, other than the fact that it was clearly written to describe links to data blocks stored on a computer and accessed on a terminal connected to that computer, then BT tried to retrospectively apply it to hyperlinks over the internet when it simply doesn't describe that.
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