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FightBack Forums _ Private Parking Tickets & Clamping _ Parking charge notice

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 22:04
Post #1371698

I would really appreciate some sound advice as I have been searching the web and YouTube clips regarding a parking charge notice.

Ok, some background. The landlord is an housing association and live in a flat with parking provided on an estate. Recently, the landlord knowingly or unknowingly has allowed cleaning contractors to park their vehicles in the resedential areas and occupying a number of spaces and thus reducing the allotted spaces for paying tenants. This has been disputed with the landlord who has agreed this is unacceptable and are in the process of addressing this.

Now the concerns. returning home Late one evening approx. 2 am in the morning and unable to find any parking spaces on the estate due to contractor vehicles occupying spaces And therefore had no choice but to park in the only bay available (which was a disabled bay). In the morning, making sure to get up early and move the vehicle to not cause any issues with those that might require it. Returning at 7 am in the morning only to find a parking charge notice. The details of this ‘invoice’ was issued at 4 am in the morning. Reason for issue: parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK LTD permit (at time of enforcement). Charge is £100 discounted to £60 if paid within 14 days. Photographic evidence was taken and provided.

Now, as I said earlier, The car was parked in the disabled bay as 14 spaces were occupied by business vehicles to which they do not have written permission to do by the landlord.

The land is private property belonging to my landlord who has also allowed PCM to operate and enforce.

I have read and searched and so on and I have also read the first read this before posting etc. Very helpful and really good advice.

So, there are plenty of signs and are visible. The markings are clear. Even though this is the case, and I have no doubt that the landlord will just say it has nothing to do with them after they address the issue of the contractors vehicles and say I have to dispute this with PCM.

I have in my panic gone to their website and clicked on the appeal web form so I can inform them I refuse to pay and I did not provide my details (name, address etc) and therefore I am not appealing but telling them I refuse to pay.

what I want to know. Plain and simple, should I pay? I have no contract with them, I do not accept any offer, the invoice value is not justified.

Also, should I ignore all correspondence from now on in?

As far as I am aware their invoice is not enforceable.

Apologies if this is not making any sense but I am sick to death with stressing over this, it’s the principle of this that I am fighting this and will go all the way.

Posted by: SchoolRunMum Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 22:39
Post #1371705

QUOTE
what I want to know. Plain and simple, should I pay?


Absolutely NOT.

QUOTE
The landlord is an housing association and live in a flat with parking provided on an estate. Recently, the landlord knowingly or unknowingly has allowed cleaning contractors to park their vehicles in the residential areas and occupying a number of spaces and thus reducing the allotted spaces for paying tenants. This has been disputed with the landlord who has agreed this is unacceptable and are in the process of addressing this.


Read Saeed v Plustrade and have a go at the Managing Agent to cancel this PCN. The MA has removed 14 bays without justification, which is a derogation from grant and the loss/damages caused are their fault, like in this case:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2001/2011.html

http://swarb.co.uk/saeed-v-plustrade-ltd-ca-20-dec-2001/

DO NOT mention the disabled bay at all.

Also ask when they will be removing PCM altogether, as an unsuitable, aggressive ex-clamper firm has no place near residents cars and there is no need whatsoever for such a nuisance on site, which is not a service. Ask how to opt out of the permit 'regime' and tell the MA that you do not recognise any authority or alleged 'contract' from PCM, who cannot re-offer parking spaces already granted in your lease.

What does your lease/tenancy agreement say about parking, or any 'restrictions' that the MA can introduce?

Please don't reply 'nothing' as if that's a bad thing...

Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 4 Apr 2018 - 14:07
Post #1371813

Thank you so much for your speedy response. In answer to your question regarding tenancy agreement parking it reads:

Vehicle parking
You must not block any road, vehicle access or parking space. You must keep all these areas free from obstructions. Items such as caravans, boat, heavy industrial or building equipment or any vehicles used for business purposes (other than a motor car/ bike) should not be parked on the property or estate without the written permission of Triangle homes. You cannot bring any vehicle onto any part of our property if you cannot legally use it on the road. You may not repair other people’s vehicles anywhere on our property if they are paying you or giving you some other reward. You must make sure that anyone living with you or visiting you also keeps to these conditions.

I have already read this in my tenancy agreement when I appproched my landlord. However, the person I spoke with does not deal with this and said the appropriate person is back Monday and who I am going to see regarding this. I have already provided my landlord office with my concerns regarding their contractor vehicles parked taking up resident spaces and provided photographic eveidnece where the vehicles have been parked for days overnight and still remain.

Unfortunately, I had told my landlord in my letter to them of parking in the only bay available which was the Disabled bay. However, as you said, without justification is derogation from grant and the lose/ damages caused if their fault.

I am in the process of writing a letter for the residents to read and to receive their views on my landlord (housing association) allowing PCM he enforce tickets for paying tenants and the fact they have removed bays and expect us to park else where.

One last thing, today another neighbour mentioned they were ticketed today! Unbelievable. It’s nearly every day I hear someone getting a ticket.

I will have a read of the links you sent me. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Jruss42 Thu, 5 Apr 2018 - 17:37
Post #1372138

Just a quick update!

I have found out that other residents who have received PCN have refused to pay and to date have not made any payment. They have received visits from someone demanding payment but continue to refuse to pay. I am not sure who these people are that have demanded payment but I will find out. Tomorrow I will be making residents aware of the issues by my landlord regarding parking spaces and their rights.

As I have said, I will take this all the way based on the principle of this dispute between me and my landlord and PCM can disappear.

Hope everyone has enjoyed the lovely weather today. biggrin.gif


Posted by: Jruss42 Mon, 14 May 2018 - 18:52
Post #1382118

Hiya,

I’ve received a notice to keeper. (PCM Received info from DVLA under the protection of freedom act 2012). They are now demanding a payment for £100 to be payed within 28 days or the cost will go up to £160 due to instructing a debt recovery company and or solicitors to recover the amount. They talk about the contractual terms and conditions (I acknowledge no contract) for use of parking area clearly signposted on land in question.

It also talks about how to make payment or how to make representation against this notice.

The private parking company also say they are the agent of the landowner and have the right to seek payment of this parking charge.

Please advise on my next steps. Do I respond or ignore?

Many thanks for your help.

Posted by: SchoolRunMum Mon, 14 May 2018 - 20:40
Post #1382157

QUOTE
They have received visits from someone demanding payment
Are you sure?

That never happens, except in this unlawful case in Leeds recently that's being investigated:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5837122

Respond to the letter mentioning Saeed v Plustrade and copy in the Managing Agent; they cannot derogate from grant.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 15 May 2018 - 04:30
Post #1382207

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
I’ve received a notice to keeper. (PCM Received info from DVLA under the protection of freedom act 2012). They are now demanding a payment for £100 to be payed within 28 days or the cost will go up to £160 due to instructing a debt recovery company and or solicitors to recover the amount.

They can say what they like, having any justification for it is different, if the signs make no mention of additional fees for debt recovery then they would have no legal basis for claiming them - and then only from the driver and not the keeper. You don't yet seem to have grasped that these aren't normal reputable businesses it is a legalised con.

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
They talk about the contractual terms and conditions (I acknowledge no contract) for use of parking area clearly signposted on land in question.

What else do you think they would say? That they have no actual right to demand money? Your lease trumps any contract they may have claim to have with you.

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
It also talks about how to make payment or how to make representation against this notice.

So, what else did you think it would say?

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
The private parking company also say they are the agent of the landowner and have the right to seek payment of this parking charge.

Again lease trumps and subsequent attempt to create a contract.

QUOTE (Jruss42 @ Mon, 14 May 2018 - 19:52) *
Please advise on my next steps. Do I respond or ignore?


You respond.

You inform them that your lease gives you the unfettered right to have your car parked in the car park and as such they cannot offer you anything, this means there can be no contract between you and them. Mention Jopson v Homeguard in this respect.

You also tell them to cease and desist from the harassment you are suffering that is spoiling your quiet enjoyment of the property and that as an agent of the landowner that would leave them and the landowner liable to a claim.

You inform them that as they have failed to comply with the strict requirements of PoFA they could not in any case hold the keeper liable for the drivers actions and if they dispute any of the above they should take it up with the driver, who you will not be naming but who is aware of their claim.

You do this as keeper (you have a Notice to keeper) NOT the driver.

If your landlord is no use then send them a cease and desist as well.

Landlords are notorious with respect to engaging private parking companies for singularly failing to understand their own legal obligations, they seem to be a total stranger to the concept of 'due diligence' they get offered a free service that looks to good to be true (guess what......), once any small level of car park abuse is resolved the only source of revenue is from the very people its meant to be there to help, the residents, both Co-op stores and Somerfield supermarkets found this out to their cost.

Its possible that the 'goons' demanding money with menaces were the ones doing the ticketing who are, of course, on a kick back per paid ticket, if they come to you just tell them to go away and shut the door, do not engage with them AT ALL, do not say anything, no explanation of anything at all. and I mean ANYTHING. Too many will get into a discussion and divulge information they shouldn't.

Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 16 May 2018 - 19:46
Post #1382740

Fantastic guys, appreciate the help and advice.

I’ll draft my response the weekend and send them my response copying in my landlord.

Thank you.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Thu, 17 May 2018 - 10:50
Post #1382850

Draft and let us see it smile.gif

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 22 May 2018 - 18:38
Post #1384191

Hey guys,

Apologies for the delay. please see my draft below. Please let me know your thoughts.



To whom it may concern

I am writing to you as the registered keeper of the vehicle *** and to confirm that I have no liability in this issue.

I request you to cease and desist from your harassment in line with the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 which is causing me stress and is spoiling my quiet enjoyment of the property and that as an agent of the landowner that would leave you and the landowner liable to a claim.

My lease gives me the unfettered right to have a car parked in the car park and as such you cannot offer me anything, this means there can be no contract between you (PCM) and myself as in the case of Saeed v Plustrade and Jopson v Homegaurd.

As you have failed to comply with the strict requirements with Protection of Freedom Act 2012, you could not in any case hold the keeper liable for the drivers’ actions and if you dispute any of the above you should dispute it with the driver, who I will not be naming but who is aware of your claim. I am in my right to decline to name the driver and any presumption that the keeper is the driver will be strongly refuted.

As I have no liability to you, I request that my details are removed from your data files under the requirements of the Data Protection Act. This request is to be taken as a request under section 10 of the ACT (Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress) and I therefore require confirmation of removal within 21 days. Failure to comply with this request will result in a complaint to the ICO and DVLA for breach of the KADOE agreement.

Therefore, I expect that this issue and any associated charges cancelled and that you respond to me confirming as such within 14 days of the receipt of this letter.

You should also note that I am now tracking costs in this matter.

A copy of this letter will go to my landlord for the stress and harassment (which is a criminal offence) this is now causing me. This is harassment of tenants’ rights to park their vehicles near their homes from a company my landlord has requested to operate within and on private land.

I have in the mean-time asked my landlord to inform me how I can opt out of the permit ‘regime’ and that I do not recognise any authority or alleged ‘contract’ from PCM, who cannot re-offer parking spaces already granted in my lease which is a derogation from grant.

I am doing this as keeper and NOT the driver.

Posted by: ostell Tue, 22 May 2018 - 19:44
Post #1384208

DPA section 10 requires a response within 21 days so the confirmation should be within that 21 days and not the 14.

Posted by: SchoolRunMum Wed, 23 May 2018 - 00:08
Post #1384264

Send a copy to your MP and get them up to speed with what is happening to residents. No-one will have 'had a visit' BTW.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Wed, 23 May 2018 - 07:45
Post #1384289

You REQUIRE they cease and desist.
Never request. Demand.

Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 23 May 2018 - 19:53
Post #1384514

Fantastic advice.

Thank you 🙏

I’ll get this amended with your comments and send to all including my MP, hopefully by Friday.

😊


Posted by: Jruss42 Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 07:54
Post #1389132

Hi,

I have tried to Private message some of you guys but says box is full.... need to talk as I think this is now being watched ! Had a pm from someone newly joined saying they could help!

Please pm

Thanks

Posted by: ostell Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 08:16
Post #1389136

PMs are discouraged, hence full inboxes. So if they are watching then they can only learn that they are on a hiding to nothing. Be wary of contact from new joiners.

Posted by: Jruss42 Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 13:20
Post #1389198

Hi,

Thanks and totally understand. The private message was saying that they could get me out of paying for the ticket if I lie and they could show me how!

Obviously I have ignored this... I have nothing to lie about, I am right and will, as I have said all along go all the way and I stand by my principles.

My MP has received my letter as did the PCN company re #post 10. The PCN company have reposnded to a letter from MP stating why they believe they are right to enforce and collect payment for their PCN. I now await my MP’s reply to their letter.


Posted by: nosferatu1001 Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 08:32
Post #1389378

We never tell anyone to lie
Maybe tell us who the PM was from and the contents?

Posted by: Redivi Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 09:21
Post #1389385

As a general rule, don't accept offers of advice from anyone with less than 500 posts and a good reputation

You can get an idea of reputation from the quality of the advice in his/her posts

Advice to lie is always firmly stamped on by other members so you're absolutely right not to reply to that PM
It's very likely that it's from PCM or even Gladstones trying to identify the case and obtain information to use against you

Ostell's correct with his hint that the most regular members have full mailboxes and it's deliberate
They would otherwise receive so many messages that that they couldn't cope

Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 20:48
Post #1390286

Hi,

Please see appended below the PM from ppww



New Member

Group: Members
Posts: 0
Member No.: 97,664
Joined: 24 Apr 2018



I do have a solution for you on your parking problem, so long as you do not mind telling a lie to a private company.

It is not, I repeat NOT an offence to tell a lie other than when under oath or if being questioned under caution by the police.

This is an entirely civil matter and does not involve the courts or the police. So if you are OK with fibbing then I can tell you how to proceed and dodge the fine.

All the best

pw

Posted by: Jruss42 Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 17:31
Post #1406689

Hi,

Been a while!

So I have received a letter from Trace - Debt Recovery UK ltd advising the debt has been passed to them because I have an outstanding matter with their client.

They go on to say - our client is now assessing cases on their merits for enforcement through the county court. Your case is now under review

If I don’t pay the full amount they will instruct a solicitor to take this to court which will incure further charges.

They then say this will affect credit ratings etc. And urge me to consider the consequences and lots of don’t ignore this letter.

Please let me know your thoughts ?

Many thanks

Posted by: cabbyman Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 18:31
Post #1406724

Did you send the letter, or similar, that you were discussing in post #10? Please post the final draft of that letter so we know what we are working with. There may be grounds for complaint/action and taking the fight to them.

Is this the first you have heard since? As a debt collector, they are toothless and can be ignored until you get a letter before claim/action.


Posted by: Law Wannabe Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 22:49
Post #1406806

Hi

I am not an expert but I just wanted to tell you about an exact situation I helped with 2 years ago. I am sorry I can't remember all the details but I am hoping someone on here can expand on what I say.

A friend of mine was renting a flat on a privately owned estate in Middlesex and parked in his own bay one evening about midnight - there were signs big signs but not well lit. He received a PCN at 4am
from PCM for not displaying his permit which had slipped down inside. He appealed as he lives there but it was rejected and he got letters from TRACE, he carried on appealing and then got a notice for court.


In the meantime I researched it and found a clause in an Act (this is where I am unsure of which Act) but it was covered lettings and the binding contracts between the landlord and the tenant.

It clearly stated that it was a landlords duty to disclose any third party that he had authorised to carry out any service on the premises to the tenant. It stated this should be somewhere in the itinerary.
It also stated in his agreement that he was supplied with a parking space as part of his agreement but stated nothing about having to display a permit to receive this.
We also argued that the parking control and signage were there to mitigate the land owners loss, so as big as the signage was it was a deterrent for non-residents. As he was a
tenant there was no loss.

It was also noted after chasing the estate agents that the permits were supplied by PCM who had a list of the registration numbers of the tenants and the PCN was addressed to the RK at the site, so PCM were
fully aware it was a resident in his own space. The RK also supplied a copy of the estate agent details and a link to the online advert where it clearly advertised 2 bed flat with parking space.

Eventually the whole thing was dropped by PCM after the estate agents got involved too.

No court and no payment.

I hope this helps and that someone else can explain the rest.

Posted by: Eljayjay Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 23:23
Post #1406812

Cabbyman is absolutely right. You can safely ignore anything from debt collectors at this stage. Do not, however, ignore a letter of/before action/claim.

In addition to responding to cabbyman’s question, what precisely does your tenancy agreement say about parking and third-party rights? Post anything which you think might be of relevance. Post the whole thing if you like (but make sure you redact any personal details first).

On the assumption that you have a right to park, my initial reaction is that, by failing to keep the bays free for the use of residents, your landlord or the manager of the development has derogated from your right to park by reducing the number of parking spaces available to residents. Was any notice given of the use of the parking spaces by the contractors?

Posted by: Jruss42 Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 16:45
Post #1407006

Hi,

So with regards to the letter in post 10# it was pretty much what i used in the template with some minor amendments stating this would go to my MP and that i demand you to cease and desist. Copy appended below:

To whom it may concern

I am writing to you as the registered keeper of the vehicle **** and to confirm that I have no liability in this issue.

I demand you to cease and desist from your harassment in line with the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 which is causing me stress and is spoiling my quiet enjoyment of the property and that as an agent of the landowner that would leave you and the landowner liable to a claim.

My lease gives me the unfettered right to have a car parked in the car park and as such you cannot offer me anything, this means there can be no contract between you (PCM) and myself as in the case of Saeed v Plustrade and Jopson v Homegaurd.

As you have failed to comply with the strict requirements with Protection of Freedom Act 2012, you could not in any case hold the keeper liable for the drivers’ actions and if you dispute any of the above you should dispute it with the driver, who I will not be naming but who is aware of your claim. I am in my right to decline to name the driver and any presumption that the keeper is the driver will be strongly refuted.

As I have no liability to you, I demand that my details are removed from your data files under the requirements of the Data Protection Act. This request is to be taken as a request under section 10 of the ACT (Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress) and I therefore require confirmation of removal within 21 days. Failure to comply with this demand will result in a complaint to the ICO and DVLA for breach of the KADOE agreement.

Therefore, I expect that this issue (and any associated charges) cancelled and that you respond to me confirming as such within 21 days of the receipt of this letter.

You should also note that I am now tracking costs in this matter.

A copy of this letter will go to my MP and landlord for the stress and harassment (which is a criminal offence) this is now causing me. This is harassment of tenants’ rights to park their vehicles near their homes from a company my landlord has requested to operate within and on private land.

I have in the mean-time asked my landlord to inform me how I can opt out of the permit ‘regime’ and that I do not recognise any authority or alleged ‘contract’ from PCM, who cannot re-offer parking spaces already granted in my lease which is a derogation from grant.

I am doing this as keeper and NOT the driver.


Following this my landlord did not respond at all.

However, my MP did say they were making representation on my behalf. Unfortunately, PCM responded to my MP and me and my MP said i should go through the appeal process.

PCM had presented my MP with their evidence of the vehicle being parked where it was and addressed the my concerns with there reason for the PCN:

1, Liability and harassment
2, Lease and right to park
3, Non-compliance with the protection of freedoms act 2012
4, Data protection

i will post their letter regarding this after redacting shortly.

Because of my very first response to PCM they stated that there is evidence in this response to say that i was the driver as i mentioned "i parked". This is not the case, in a panic we wrote a response and wasn't paying attention to who was writing the letter. Anyways, going at PCM with this initial letter, i then decided that i would go back to my MP with my evidence of the contractor vehicles that occupied parking 10 plus parking spaces including the building materials that occupied another 5 spaces totalling 15 spaces. Surely, as a resident i have rights over these contractors who on investigation have their own yard to park their vehicles.

On raising my concerns with my landlord initially, they made all contractor vehicles stop parking giving back the 10 spaces to residents and followed by clearing the contractor rubbish, yes it was just crap left over and sitting there for ages. They did all this within weeks (2-4 weeks).

On providing my MP with this information he has now made representation on my behalf again. This was said a month ago and my landlord seem to be dragging there feet. I contacted my landlord and asked for there assistance and cooperation with my MP.

You cannot take away 15 parking spaces and then expect residents to park their vehicles else where. The tenancy says no vehicles must be parked that are for business purposes only and the fact they hurried them off would suggest they knew this was not right.

Also, prior to all this, My landlord had yellow lined a lot of areas where cars used to park, i would say that made 20 cars having to use other areas or forcing them to use the parking spaces but they did not address the parking situation. They remove 20 parking spaces but did not provide 20 parking spaces else where and then allow contractors and materials occupy these spaces.

So that is my update. apologises for the lengthy and probably confusing reply.

At the end of the day, this is a clear derogation from grant and i await the court letter.

Thanks for all your advice and help it really is appreciated.

Posted by: Jruss42 Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 16:48
Post #1407676

Believe it or not but I am close to taking them to court myself over this stressful situation.

I am making enquiries into seeking independent legal advice and representation.


Posted by: cabbyman Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 17:05
Post #1407686

Deep breath.......And relax.

You will find no better advice than you are getting here. Many lawyers have little or no experience with parking matters.

Others will be along shortly with more detailed advice, meantime, please post the letter you received from them as you mentioned in post #25 on Friday.

I know it's not easy but this is very, very winnable by you if you keep your nerve.

Posted by: Eljayjay Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 17:37
Post #1407703

As cabbyman says, "Deep breath.......And relax".

What is the document actually called that gives you a right to live in your home? In some of your posts, you call it "my lease". In others, you call it "my tenancy agreement". Stick to what it is actually known as.

The paragraph headed "Vehicle Parking" reproduced in post #3 may be the only part of the document which mentions "parking", but there may be other parts of the document that are also relevant. For example, is there anything in the document which gives someone, perhaps your landlord, the right to introduce rules and/or regulations? Is there anything in the document which governs third-party rights?

The best thing to do would be to post the entire document here so that we can read it for ourselves and then point out to you the parts which are helpful and, perhaps, the parts which are not so helpful. It is important for you to know the good and the bad so that nothing comes as a surprise in the event of the case going to court.

The priority here is to make sure that you have a strong defence against any formal claim. It is only when you have a strong defence that you should think about taking court action or submitting a counterclaim against the parking company.

Most of the posters on this forum recognise that many of the parking companies are parasites, particularly in residential parking cases. Do, however, bear in mind that someone has engaged the parking company to monitor the car park. So, on the face of it, the parking company is only doing its job and, in any claim made by you, you will need to convince a judge that the parking company has done something wrong. Succeeding in claims and counterclaims for, say, data protection breaches is a lottery. In addition, as your case does not involve a parking space specifically allocated to you, a claim or counterclaim for trespass is not an option.

So, stay calm, cool and collected and let's get the defence sorted first.

Posted by: cabbyman Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 18:06
Post #1407721

The terms 'lease' and 'tenancy agreement' are interchangeable.

Posted by: Eljayjay Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:09
Post #1407761

Generically, I totally agree. At the same time, however, I would say that an individual document is usually referred to therein as one or the other, not both.

The more important point is, of course, what the document says.

Posted by: Jruss42 Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:36
Post #1407773

Ok, I’m breathing ... seriously, these people!

Ok so please see attached the letter from PCM in response to my letter from post #10.

In haste and panic and anger a response was sent to PCM via their portal which they will take as an appeal but it was more as an efficient form of communication letting them know there will be no payment made to them.

As for taking them to court I wasn’t sure who I would be countering with this as it could be my landlord who allowed their contractor vehicles and building materials to occupy resident spaces which in turn lead to the damages and losses they feel they have incurred with no real estimate of this.

 

Posted by: Jruss42 Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:17
Post #1407792

Following this letter from PCM which also followed a letter from my MP saying I should follow the appeal process I then write back to my MP disagreeing to this and providing further information with regards to the parking situation which I can attach here if you think that would help!

My MP has since made representation on my behalf again this time in relation to my landlord and the parking limitations due to their contractor vehicles and who have not responded as of yet and has now been over a month.

Posted by: Eljayjay Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:57
Post #1407811

The correspondence with your MP is largely irrelevant. The parking company is telling your MP that right is on their side, not yours. Your MP probably does not understand the rights and wrongs of the situation and, even if he did, he could not do anything to prevent the parking company from taking further action against you.

You need to focus on your defence and, if we are to help you, you need to help us. WE NEED TO SEE YOUR LEASE/TENANCY AGREEMENT.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:18
Post #1407912

Indeed, there are onlyu so many times we can ask fo rit
You either show us the agreement, or go through it AGAIN using the ideas above, and report back what is given.

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 16:52
Post #1407997

Hi,

i dont know what is going on but i have been trying to upload the agreement for some time and keeps failing due to max upload size 56.29k. Also says attachment size used 1.9MB. will this reset ?

Posted by: cabbyman Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 16:57
Post #1408000

Host at TinyPic and post the [img] tags to this thread.

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:24
Post #1408008

Hi,

Okay so i used that site and reduced them and then uploaded some of the pages but i have no upload left so cannot upload anymore. Not sure how you will view it as its tiny. literally.



 

Posted by: cabbyman Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:29
Post #1408009

Did they need reducing? I normally scan into my PC then upload to TinyPic and, by then copying and pasting the [IMG] tags, they reproduce on the thread at, or near, full size. Those you have posted are unreadable, as you suspected.

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:34
Post #1408012

Cabbyman,

will the file limit increase again do you know so i can send full.

this is getting very tiresome. i don't understand why there is a limit.

appreciate your help.

Posted by: cabbyman Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 17:51
Post #1408015

When you upload to TinyPics, you get 4 boxes with links in them. The second box down is the img link. Copy it into the dialogue box on the forum. Then, when you hit 'Add Reply' at the bottom of the dialogue box, the images appear on the thread. You nearly got it right in post #37 but without the size reduction.

The limit on size of images posted directly to the forum, rather than through an external host, is to avoid using up all of the forum's limited bandwidth(?), I think! blush.gif

Posted by: cabbyman Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 18:42
Post #1408026

Well done!

There is nothing that leaps out from that lease that restricts your parking on the property provided you are not obstructing roadways, etc., per sec D19.

Do you also have a separate page/schedule detailing what you are renting? eg; 'the property known as xxxx and common parts, car parking.....' or similar. It would be handy to know the precise wording of that, without the precise address, of course.

I think, looking at that, you should be able to tell PCM to go whistle, so to speak. At this point, it's looking good. Let's see what others have to say.

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 19:39
Post #1408041

Hi,

I haven’t come across anything like that that was in the tenancy agreement pack. There was another page to that tenancy agreement document but that was the signed agreement which has sections on one page:

The tenancy agreement is between ‘landlord’ and tenant.
The tenancy is for the property at ‘address’
The people who may live at the property are
The charges you must pay
The date the tenancy starts
Declaration

Within the welcome pack there where documents like complaints procedure, your rent, about your tenancy and compensation policy & procedure etc. But a lot saying about pets, rubbish assault on staff etc.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 08:56
Post #1408104

D26 states other regus may apply, but you woudl get a copy at the start - did you?

There is nothing in there allowing them to vary the estate rules or regs
Meaning a third party cannot do so, for sure.

E1 is fairly clar on your rights.

Posted by: Eljayjay Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 15:38
Post #1408221

Paragraph 19 (Vehicle parking) says nothing about any parking spaces being reserved for the disabled.

If that is said in regulations made in accordance with your tenancy agreement, you may be in breach of the tenancy agreement. In my opinion, however, that would be a matter to be resolved by the parties to the tenancy agreement, and the parking company is not one of them. The remedy would be for your landlord to seek damages from you and/or an injunction against you not to repeat the breach.

At common law, a contract does not confer rights on third parties, i.e. persons, such as the parking company, who are not parties to the contract. That can be overridden provided that a contract contains a clause allowing a third party or third parties to enforce some of its terms, but I cannot find such a clause in your tenancy agreement.

It is perverse that, by inviting the parking company to operate on the land, someone has turned a car park intended for use by residents into a car park available to any Tom, Dick or Harry willing to pay the exorbitant parking charge. I suspect the right judge might find this to be a derogation from grant of the residents' rights to park there.

The reduction in the number of parking spaces seems to be a derogation from that right.

Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 17:58
Post #1408259

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 09:56) *
D26 states other regus may apply, but you woudl get a copy at the start - did you?


Hi, many thanks for reviewing this and providing advice.

The answer is no. I was never given anything of the sort I.e. no rules given with the welcome pack at the start of my tenancy. I have been living here since 2004 and PCM have only been operating for 1 year.

Posted by: Eljayjay Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 18:11
Post #1408262

Read Pace Recovery v Mr N in the Case Law section of the Parking Prankster’s website.

Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 18:21
Post #1408266

QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 16:38) *
Paragraph 19 (Vehicle parking) says nothing about any parking spaces being reserved for the disabled.

The reduction in the number of parking spaces seems to be a derogation from that right.


I have evidence , pictures of contractor vehicles occupying 14 plus spaces over the weekend of the incident and had been for months on end Reducing parking spaces for residents. To add to this, other areas where residents did park their vehciles - I.e. down the side road on curbs etc. - were yellow lined forcing residents to park in the parking bays. If you can imagene, by yellow lining these areas, and vehicles now parking in these bays, and then contractors parking in them occupying 14 bays, then when they are taken up where do residents park!

As I had said to my landlord, you addressed the parking situation by yellow lining areas not for parking, but did not provide more parking bays, and allow contractors to use these spaces.....derogation from grant...

Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 18:36
Post #1408267

QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 19:11) *
Read Pace Recovery v Mr N in the Case Law section of the Parking Prankster’s website.


Very interesting read and I can relate. My tenancy agreement (contract) gives me the unfettered right to park my vehicle in the parking spaces provided without the need to display a permit.


Posted by: Jruss42 Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 18:59
Post #1408280

So it looks like I just sit tight now and await the letter of/before action/claim!

Anyone know roughly any time scale before this arrives considering my current situation I.e. PCM demand for payment in April, Trace demand for payment as of August etc.


Posted by: Eljayjay Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 19:29
Post #1408290

It could be at any time within six years.

It will probably be much quicker than that, but it could still be many weeks away.

They would much prefer to wear you down without taking court action.

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 16:38
Post #1409898

Hey Guys,

So i got a response from my Landlord Cc'ing my MP regarding the parking situation.

Unbelievable in their response. They say, the contractors vehicles were their for a short time, which is not true they were there for months on end and were left their over many nights. Residents had been complaining for months about it and they did not listen. When i Complained they removed them all. Parking is for residents not contractor vehicles. So much B*****T spoken here.




Posted by: Eljayjay Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 18:09
Post #1409919

Yes, a huge amount of cattle dung.

The use of the word "fine" says it all really.

In case this goes any further, make sure you keep that letter because it shows how stupid an individual with a job title like "Assistant Director" can be.

Posted by: Jruss42 Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 18:35
Post #1409922

yes I did think that I mean to use the word illegal! I am not sure he knows what the word actually means. Is parking in a disabled bay really illegal .... I think not! Has a criminal offence been committed? NO. So how is this illegal. Where’s my dictionary ......

And don’t worry, i keep everything.

I’ll be honest, I was not expecting the landlord to over turn this decision but his pathetic attempt to explain to my MP their position is laughable.

Posted by: Eljayjay Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:20
Post #1409959

illegal = contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law (compliments of Google)

fine = A fine or mulct is money that a court of law or other authority decides has to be paid as punishment for a crime or other offence (again, compliments of Google)

A parking charge notice is simply a invoice, nothing more and nothing less. In your case, it is simply an invoice which you have challenged because the parking company and your landlord have failed abysmally to convince you that you owe them any money.

Posted by: Jlc Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:42
Post #1409966

It's either a contractually agreed charge or 'damages' due to breach of contract.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 07:58
Post #1410035

I would suggest you write to your MP and correct the many "mistakes" in that letter

Point out that THIS is why you need Greg Knights Bill to go through - unscrupulous parking firms where teh landlord refuses to intercede on residents behalf.

Posted by: Jruss42 Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 19:59
Post #1416894



appreciate the help

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