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red light
metso
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 12:50
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Last night driving home, taking an unusual route via Holloway road, (London), i’m approaching a traffic light junction. It’s two lanes and I’m in the right hand lane, that I realise is a right hand turn only. The traffic lights for straight on are green and the lights for turning right are red. I indicate to change lanes and change lanes to go straight ahead on the junction, when I notice the double flash of a red light camera.

Since I was going straight and lights for straight ahead were green, is there anything that I could argue in my defence should I be presented with a fine and points.

Thank you
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post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 12:50
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cp8759
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 12:55
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It depends on the layout of the junction, can you provide a Google Street View link?
In most cases such as the one you described, you wouldn't receive a nip for going through a red light because whoever processes the photos will see that no red light offence has been committed.
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metso
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 13:54
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i think it was here, holloway road/ parkhurst road junction, twds highbury corner.... https://goo.gl/maps/FeuvVdnQJFS2

my indicators lights were indicating that I was changing lanes, hopefully he moment the camera flashed, my indicator was illuminated...

I believe I was halfway thru changing lanes when the actual flash occured...

thank you
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stamfordman
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:12
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I know this junction - I think you should be OK as the camera is there to stop people jumping the right turn light at the end of green, or maybe that and the straightahead green too.

EDIT - just to confirm you were on the northbound side?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:28
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metso
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:29
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:12) *
I know this junction - I think you should be OK as the camera is there to stop people jumping the right turn light at the end of green, or maybe that and the straightahead green too.


I hope thats the case...

if I dont receive anything within 14 days I should be clear, if not... I'll post an update here...
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StuartBu
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:32
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QUOTE (metso @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 13:54) *
i think it was here, holloway road/ parkhurst road junction, twds highbury corner.... https://goo.gl/maps/FeuvVdnQJFS2

my indicators lights were indicating that I was changing lanes, hopefully he moment the camera flashed, my indicator was illuminated...

I believe I was halfway thru changing lanes when the actual flash occured...

thank you


Unless I am being thick I cant relate that image to your description .Can you navigate to where YOU were and post that link so we can see your view .?

This post has been edited by StuartBu: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:34
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metso
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:52
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https://ibb.co/bSXJLG

imagine i'm the hatchback...
and thats where i'm indicating and changing lanes...


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stamfordman
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:00
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You mean the car in the centre of the pic behind the bike? Yes, that's the right turn lane. But you said originally there are 2 lanes - there are 3 in fact.
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metso
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:12
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yes, behind the bicycle

does that make a difference that there were three lanes?

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StuartBu
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:15
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QUOTE (metso @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:52) *
https://ibb.co/bSXJLG

imagine i'm the hatchback...
and thats where i'm indicating and changing lanes...


I'm struggling to see where you think you went through a light at red .Those nearest lights -did they both turn green ...from that view ( which might be misleading) it appears as though you could still have gone straight ahead and squeezed over to the left . I see there is a split set of lights across the junction and guess the RH one stays at red for a bit ( or does it?)

This post has been edited by StuartBu: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:22
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stamfordman
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:20
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QUOTE (metso @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:12) *
yes, behind the bicycle

does that make a difference that there were three lanes?


No - just pinning down where you were. If you drove straight across on a green ahead arrow that can't be a contravention (I hope).
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metso
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 16:00
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:15) *
QUOTE (metso @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:52) *
https://ibb.co/bSXJLG

imagine i'm the hatchback...
and thats where i'm indicating and changing lanes...


I'm struggling to see where you think you went through a light at red .Those nearest lights -did they both turn green ...from that view ( which might be misleading) it appears as though you could still have gone straight ahead and squeezed over to the left . I see there is a split set of lights across the junction and guess the RH one stays at red for a bit ( or does it?)


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StuartBu
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 16:23
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QUOTE (metso @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 16:00) *
QUOTE (StuartBu @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 15:15) *
QUOTE (metso @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 14:52) *
https://ibb.co/bSXJLG

imagine i'm the hatchback...
and thats where i'm indicating and changing lanes...


I'm struggling to see where you think you went through a light at red .Those nearest lights -did they both turn green ...from that view ( which might be misleading) it appears as though you could still have gone straight ahead and squeezed over to the left . I see there is a split set of lights across the junction and guess the RH one stays at red for a bit ( or does it?)




Gotcha...that makes things clearer . perhaps not the best arrangement . I guess the sensors in the road for that lane must be seperate from the ones for the other two lanes ...... I'm trying to think of a comparable junction I have seen near me ....I can think of one where the nearest RH light would also be split and sometimes you get arrangements where the approach in the RH lane is physically separated from the others

This post has been edited by StuartBu: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 16:26
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fedup2
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:11
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How long after the line,or before it was your vehicle in the right hand lane? was it a really late lane switch?
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superSmiffy
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:25
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There are sensors in each lane. If the right filter applies to the right-hand lane then you must have passed over the stop line in the right hand lane and before you managed to get to the lanes on green.

Seems like you have committed the offence as the sensors in the centre and left lanes wont trigger an offence for the right hand lane.
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metso
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:27
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:11) *
How long after the line,or before it was your vehicle in the right hand lane? was it a really late lane switch?


I think right about where the hatchback car in the right hand lane is , when I started to make my way into the left lane, my indicators were flashing left and I had already committed to the maneuver
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fedup2
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:36
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I really wouldnt want to place much money on where it will go.Seeing a photo of the position of the car at the time of the flash may help,but i guess its going to come down to a human decision.

All you can do is wait i guess.

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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 19:27
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There are split sensors (here) so the right turn can be detected separately from the straight ahead.

As noted, hopefully a human will see the car heading straight and not proceed...


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PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
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Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 06:35
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QUOTE (superSmiffy @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:25) *
There are sensors in each lane. If the right filter applies to the right-hand lane then you must have passed over the stop line in the right hand lane and before you managed to get to the lanes on green.

Seems like you have committed the offence as the sensors in the centre and left lanes wont trigger an offence for the right hand lane.

Eh, as long as he went straight on then no offence was committed, depending on road position then it may be easier or harder to convince the police or court he was going straight on, but that's not the same as committing the offence.


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superSmiffy
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 06:55
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 06:35) *
QUOTE (superSmiffy @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:25) *
There are sensors in each lane. If the right filter applies to the right-hand lane then you must have passed over the stop line in the right hand lane and before you managed to get to the lanes on green.

Seems like you have committed the offence as the sensors in the centre and left lanes wont trigger an offence for the right hand lane.

Eh, as long as he went straight on then no offence was committed, depending on road position then it may be easier or harder to convince the police or court he was going straight on, but that's not the same as committing the offence.

He described going straight on while crossing the stop line in the right hand lane. The right hand lane had a red stop signal.
The decision maker may just well let it pass, then again perhaps not.
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