PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bus Lane Offence - seeking opinion
Janus
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 23:54
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 5 Dec 2017
Member No.: 95,422



Received a Bus Lane Offence notice rather unexpectedly. Now I will be fine to pay it and also be extra careful next time but what is irking me is the fact that I never realised that I had been in the Bus Lane and I still cannot figure out the offence even after viewing the attached offence image. This was on a Sunday in Manchester city centre. Could anyone kindly advise if the offence is apparent from the image and perhaps I am missing something? Many thanks in advance!
Attached File(s)
Attached File  image.pdf ( 82.75K ) Number of downloads: 148
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 16)
Advertisement
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 23:54
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
peterguk
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 00:08
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,250
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



Press "report" and ask a mod to move your post to the correct forum.

If you search the forum, you'll find a couple of threads on this location.

Post up all sides of the PCN, redact personal details only.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 09:12
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,477
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



Yet another Oxford Road "bus lane" PCN. Threads so far indicate the signing is deficient as the single sign is too far to the left and could be confused with the cycle lane entrance. However Manchester, will likely reject all appeals, (they keep your money so are hardly an unbiased judge), so you'd have to forego the discount and take them to TPT.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 09:12
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 09:20
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,401
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



We need to see the pcn. there is a spate of them that have been issued out of time and are thus invalid
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Umtwebby
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 14:03
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 429
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,283



QUOTE (Janus @ Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 23:54) *
Received a Bus Lane Offence notice rather unexpectedly. Now I will be fine to pay it and also be extra careful next time but what is irking me is the fact that I never realised that I had been in the Bus Lane and I still cannot figure out the offence even after viewing the attached offence image. This was on a Sunday in Manchester city centre. Could anyone kindly advise if the offence is apparent from the image and perhaps I am missing something? Many thanks in advance!


Because the road is not used permanently as a bus lane then the signage is likely sufficient to represent that it is a bus lane. However, the sign in your picture may be too far to the left and could be mistaken for the no vehicles onto what is actually a cycle lane rather than down Oxford Road.

You need to post up a picture of the PCN because it appears that almost all recent cases have had the issue of the notice served out of time which means you are not liable for the fine. This makes the appeal a lot easier.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Anon Y Mouse
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 21:32
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 3 Dec 2017
Member No.: 95,389



I suppose given that the cycle lane on the left is far too narrow for a bus, then the sign must refer to the main carriageway.However, I only came to that conclusion after a few minutes studying the picture trying to work out what the actual infringement was. I can't imagine you would have the rime to work out what the sign was referring to on the approach from what is in the photograph. What I don't understand is where you are supposed to go given that there is no visible alternative direction other than to do a U turn. Either you are being funnelled into a trap, or you already passed a sign stating there was a bus lane ahead and through traffic should turn off.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Umtwebby
post Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 14:37
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 429
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,283



QUOTE (Anon Y Mouse @ Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 21:32) *
I suppose given that the cycle lane on the left is far too narrow for a bus, then the sign must refer to the main carriageway.However, I only came to that conclusion after a few minutes studying the picture trying to work out what the actual infringement was. I can't imagine you would have the rime to work out what the sign was referring to on the approach from what is in the photograph. What I don't understand is where you are supposed to go given that there is no visible alternative direction other than to do a U turn. Either you are being funnelled into a trap, or you already passed a sign stating there was a bus lane ahead and through traffic should turn off.


The cycle lane is not too narrow for a car nor a motorcycle although the entry to it may be tight in the case of a car. As the sign is a no vehicle order sign relating to cars and motorcycles then the sign could relate to the cycle lane rather than the main carriageway.

The only option at this point is the U Turn and to turn right off the road approximately 70 yards back.

This post has been edited by Umtwebby: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 14:51
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 9 Dec 2017 - 15:49
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,401
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



Post the PCN if this is valid you are the unlucky one
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Janus
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 14:29
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 5 Dec 2017
Member No.: 95,422



Guys, many thanks for your responses. Having gone through more detail on similar incidents on the forum, I have submitted my appeal for the alleged offence. As the car is managed by a Lease company, it takes a while for me to get hold of the PCN which does not arrive directly to me. Since I take this route on most weekends, I am expecting further PCNs as well sad.gif
I have attached my submission detail for your review and would highly welcome any feedback / suggestions. Thanks!

This post has been edited by Janus: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:22
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Representation.pdf ( 427.68K ) Number of downloads: 27
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 14:37
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,401
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



You should have posted the PCN as requested, and told us it was a lease car. The start date differs It is the date of acceptance of original reps. but to be honest the dates are a bit tight for that.
Have you made reps against a PCN addressed to the lease company?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 14:38
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,762
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (Janus @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 14:29) *
As the car is managed by a Lease company, it takes a while for me to get hold of the PCN which does not arrive directly to me.


The lease co would normally name you and a new PCN would be issued to you.
Is that the situation here?
How can you submit reps if PCN not yet in your name?



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Janus
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:07
Post #12


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 5 Dec 2017
Member No.: 95,422



The Lease Company has written to me (below). Since I was not sure if it would be OK to do nothing till I receive notice in my name I decided to go ahead with the appeal.

"We have provided your name and address to the council to reissue the notice to you so you should wait to receive the notice in your name to dispute the charge. I have emailed you a copy of the bus lane charge we received, we have since received a second bus lane fine, I will also email that to you."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:19
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,762
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



You have no authority to make reps until you have a PCN in your name.

This will be interesting as yours will likely be 'in time'.

You'll have to adapt reps to highlight first was unlawful.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:25
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,401
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:19) *
You have no authority to make reps until you have a PCN in your name.

This will be interesting as yours will likely be 'in time'.

You'll have to adapt reps to highlight first was unlawful.


have you got copies of both the PCN's sent to the lease co if not ask for them. If both of those are unlawful then any further action (the issue of a PCN to you) is also unlawful
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:33
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,762
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:25) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:19) *
You have no authority to make reps until you have a PCN in your name.

This will be interesting as yours will likely be 'in time'.

You'll have to adapt reps to highlight first was unlawful.


have you got copies of both the PCN's sent to the lease co if not ask for them. If both of those are unlawful then any further action (the issue of a PCN to you) is also unlawful

Agreed but that's the way it has to be presented.
Manc will get very confused with this; likely to claim first irrelevant.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:37
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14,401
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:33) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:25) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:19) *
You have no authority to make reps until you have a PCN in your name.

This will be interesting as yours will likely be 'in time'.

You'll have to adapt reps to highlight first was unlawful.


have you got copies of both the PCN's sent to the lease co if not ask for them. If both of those are unlawful then any further action (the issue of a PCN to you) is also unlawful

Agreed but that's the way it has to be presented.
Manc will get very confused with this; likely to claim first irrelevant.


Yep this needs handling with care OP do not rush into doing things without checking with us. It will be very rare if you wait more than a day for a response
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Janus
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 15:55
Post #17


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 5 Dec 2017
Member No.: 95,422



Thanks guys. I have attached the copy of PCNs as received from leasing company. Have to admit I don't have prior experience with an appeal so made the submission based on what I was able to gather from the forum. Would be more patient with next steps in line with advice (I guess you learn something every day). The PCN has a marked date which I thought would have been the date of receipt but then the guidance from the forum mentions 2 working days after date of posting to be deemed served date and that is what I decided to go with. I understand from comments it is different for lease company. Should I wait for the PCN to come in my name before taking any further step? (As I mentioned I would expect there could be 5 or 6 PCNs in total for the alleged offence at the exact same location till I first got informed of it)
Attached File(s)
Attached File  PCN.pdf ( 788.49K ) Number of downloads: 30
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 18th December 2018 - 22:11
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.