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Speeding offence 67 in a 40 zone, Threads merged
Swaby1992
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:28
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Hi guys,

In august I apparently got caught doing 67 in a 40mph zone (non motorway) by a mobile police camera van, I got a NIP to my work address and filled it out claiming responsibility as the driver. I then got another NiP to my home address around 1 week later which I again filled in, 3 months have passed and i have received nothing else. I do however realise that this can take up to 6 months.

I have a good job covering all UK territory so need my licence, I have a clean licence and have been driving for 8years. I currently do around 90,000 miles per year, I have only ever had one offence and that was 3 and a half years ago and carried 3 points which I believe are still on my licence but inactive, this was for doing 80mph in a 70.

I have a young family, the same boat as everybody else in which loss of driving (loss of job) would ruin our life.

On the day of the alleged I had my partner and 3 kids on the car, it was dry and around 6pm at night so traffic was average but it was on a duel carriageway, one of my children was a 6month old, she was absolutely screaming the car down and I was trying to find somewhere to pull over to check on her, however I genuinely did not realise my speed and still do not think that I was coincidentally 1mph over the 66 guideline for court summons, however I believe I was speeding to some extent so to my knowledge it is best just to accept guilt and not fight for something that may or may not be true?

I think I am looking for experienced opinions on the following -

Should I plead guilty in those circumstances ?

Can I request evidence and calibration from the speed gun without pleading not guilty?

Should I appear in court or send in a letter of apology and a letter from work as a reference?

What should I expect as an outcome?

Thanks in advance, any help would be greatly appreciated, I am 25 years old however I doubt that has any relevance to the case

This post has been edited by Swaby1992: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:48
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post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:28
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Jlc
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:47
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The guidance at that speed is 6 points or a ban up to 56 days.

A fine of around 150% of weekly relevant earnings (discounted by 33% for a guilty plea), costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).

Odds on for 6 points but they may consider a ban.

Challenging the allegation could prove costly if you pushed to a contested trial - costs alone would likely exceed £600. It is unlikely the speed measurement (by laser) is unlikely to be wrong but as you know you were speeding but not by how much then it's hard to say whether any 'challenge' should be considered.

The next you'll hear will likely be a Single Justice Procedure Note to enter a postal plea. A guilty plea may be sentenced without the need to go to court but they may request your presence to consider a ban.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:47


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:47
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The upper speed for a fixed penalty is 65, so you are two mph over that.

I don't see why you would plead not guilty, nothing you have said indicates a defence, in fact you are admitting driving without due care and attention.

It's pretty certain you'll get six points, you'll get two chances anyway as it will start with a single justice hearing and unless that single justice decides a ban should be considered it will be points Andy a fine only, if they do it will be a full hearing in the magistrates court with three new magistrates and you get a second chance at just points.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Swaby1992
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:55
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Thanks for that reply, a ban believe it or not if under 4 weeks would probably not be bad for me at all as work would give me it off, not to mention I would finish the ban with a clean licence and my insurance premium wouldn't be affected as it's company insurance, if a 56 day ban is the maximum and worst case then I need not worry? Work have offered to pay the fine anyway...
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cp8759
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:56
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QUOTE (Swaby1992 @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:28) *
Should I plead guilty in those circumstances ?

You don't appear to have an arguable defence, having children in the car could arguably make matters worse

QUOTE (Swaby1992 @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:28) *
Can I request evidence and calibration from the speed gun without pleading not guilty?

Yes, once the court proceedings have started. When you get a summons simply write to the prosecution and ask for the "Initial details of the prosecution case under CrimPR Part 8".

QUOTE (Swaby1992 @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:28) *
Should I appear in court or send in a letter of apology and a letter from work as a reference?

My personal advice would always be to go to court, if you don't like the outcome you won't get a re-hearing and it's unlikely a detailed record will be kept of what happened. Whatever the outcome, you risk always asking yourself if you could have got a better outcome by turning up.

QUOTE (Swaby1992 @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:28) *
What should I expect as an outcome?

The sentencing guidelines are normally followed quite closely: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offenc...g-revised-2017/
A band C fine is between 125 – 175% of your weekly income, the starting point would be 150%


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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Swaby1992
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:58
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Rookie, my not guilty plea would have been regarding the speed, if the gun wasn't calibrated and I was actually driving under 65, I believe that puts me in band b which carried less points and a lower fine (100% of weekly income?) however in no expert and take your advise on board, I didn't know if it was worth contesting hence why I asked if you could request evidence and calibration without pleading not guilty.
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Jlc
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 19:02
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QUOTE (Swaby1992 @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:55) *
Thanks for that reply, a ban believe it or not if under 4 weeks would probably not be bad for me at all as work would give me it off, not to mention I would finish the ban with a clean licence and my insurance premium wouldn't be affected as it's company insurance, if a 56 day ban is the maximum and worst case then I need not worry? Work have offered to pay the fine anyway...

A ban would need to be declared to the insurer (either after conviction or at renewal). It is likely to load any premium more than points.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Swaby1992
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 19:09
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Hi JLC, I'm not contesting that at all, I didn't mean it wouldn't personally affect any insurance I try to take out however we have a company insurance which costs 10,000s per year so I doubt it would have a drastic effect to me personally as it is a company car. I would be left without any points and also could take leave for a ban less then 56 days?
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Jlc
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 19:11
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Yes, that is one way at looking at it.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Swaby1992
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 19:15
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I'm not encouraging anybody expecting a prosecution to not worry, I am just trying to give myself some reassurance, I have already committed the offence and need to take the punishment. However I am just thinking worse case scenario isn't actually as horrendous as I thought?

When I received the letter and it said the speed I was worried about a 6month plus ban and potentially re taking tests, however everything you have mentioned, fine, 6 points or short term ban are all manageable for me with no massive repercussions, as long as I can't get any higher then a 56 day ban if I go in, plead guilty, show remorse etc etc then I can put my mind at rest slightly until I receive something...

I've heard nothing for 3 months and me and my partner have been worrying as we had no experience with this.

Thanks
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mdann52
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:54
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QUOTE (Swaby1992 @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 18:58) *
Rookie, my not guilty plea would have been regarding the speed, if the gun wasn't calibrated and I was actually driving under 65, I believe that puts me in band b which carried less points and a lower fine (100% of weekly income?) however in no expert and take your advise on board, I didn't know if it was worth contesting hence why I asked if you could request evidence and calibration without pleading not guilty.


It's unlikely worth taking it to court on these grounds - you were over the limit in any case, and it's unlikely the gun was off by 25mp, and while it may take you down a band, it's up to you to decide if it's worth the (IMO large) risk. As mentioned previously, you can plead guilty to speeding and contest the speed, but unless you have evidence you were significantly slower, expect 4 figure costs at the very least.

This post has been edited by mdann52: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:55
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 08:54
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Its likely to be the SJPN that comes through, near the 6 month timeline.
If you want a ban in preference, you can try to sway it - "I realise that that sort of excess can only be dealt with by a ban" type - but you cannot choose your punishment. 6 points has a lasting effect, a ban less so!
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Jlc
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 09:01
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 08:54) *
6 points has a lasting effect, a ban less so!

Indeed, I wouldn't let on to the court than a ban has little 'impact'. (On the basis a ban does appear to have less impact in these circumstances - unless for a significant period)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 09:01


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 13:37
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QUOTE (Swaby1992 @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 19:58) *
Rookie, my not guilty plea would have been regarding the speed, if the gun wasn't calibrated and I was actually driving under 65

As the speed gun doesn't have to be calibrated that may be a foolish move.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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NewJudge
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 13:46
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And furthermore, to be Not Guilty of speeding you must have been travelling below the speed limit of 40mph. Would you be able to cast sufficient doubt on the accuracy of the device or its operation such that it might have over-recorded by 27mph?
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Swaby1992
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 16:02
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Hi guys,

I was elegidly caught speeding by a mobile van doing 67 mph in a 40mph zone,

I am aware that this is a band C offence and I could face 6 points, a fine of up to 150% of your weekly wage or a temporary ban, I have a clean licence and no previous convictions, I have been driving 8 years and do 80k miles per year for my job.

I genuinely thought it was still a national duel carriageway however I was mistaken and it was actually a 40 and before I realised it was too late.

I received a NiP to my work address which is signed and sent back naming myself, I then received a NiP to my home address which I signed and sent off, it has been approximately 6months and 1 week since I sent that document back first class,

I have not received any further information or court summons, I also have no convictions against my driving licence so it isn't possible that I've missed anything in the post,

Can they still prosecute, is this common ? Should I have received any further information?

Thanks in advance
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The Rookie
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 16:18
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They have six months from the date of the offence to commence proceedings, that doesn’t mean you will get notification of that immediately but if it’s been six months since you replied it’s probabky 7-8 months since the speeding offence so it does suggest you have somehow slipped through the net.

One caveat, if they didn’t receive your reply the six months to prosecute you for not replying but they will normally issue proceedings for both offences (although treating them as alternates) so it’s not impossible they may just progress proceedings for that.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Swaby1992
post Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 16:47
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That's what I was hoping you'd say, also just based on what you said in regards to them not receiving my reply, it would be impossible for them not to have my address and name as I replied from work the first time, they then sent the same letter to my home address which again I replied to, if they didn't receive that reply how can I be held responsible for that when I clearly showed acknowledgement the first time making it very unlikely that I'd be stupid enough to not respond the second time. Plus I have many witnesses to me posting the reply as I gave it to the Royal Mail guys that collect our post from work both times.

Thanks
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