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Unexpected notification of disqualification
Anon Y Mouse
post Sun, 3 Dec 2017 - 18:01
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I received a letter yesterday from the DVLA stating I need to return my licence as I they have been notified that I was disqualified by the courts from driving for an alcohol related offence.

Now I have not even been stopped by the police, let alone breath tested, arrested charged and convicted, yet when I put my details into the DVLA's search it shows me as being disqualified for two years. I am now left with no alternative but to spend more money than I am paid on taxis to and from work every day until this is sorted out.

Has anyone got any similar experiences and / or able to offer any advice?
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post Sun, 3 Dec 2017 - 18:01
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DancingDad
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 12:34
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QUOTE (Anon Y Mouse @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 12:26) *
.....I'm guessing that the offender didn't have his licence in court and the courts have searched for his licence number by name and date of birth but not checked the address or assumed that the offender had moved without informing the DVLA.


That's my guess.
The issue is that once authority have dropped a clanger in red tape, getting them to admit and correct can be a PITA.
As the person you spoke to at court seems on board, my hope would be that they simply need to get the right authority to correct and it will resolve.
The cynic in me says it may not be that simple.

But for what it is worth, I reckon you have to keep down that route.
Any legal remedy such as stat dec or trying to get set aside do not seem relevant, likely to take time and cost you.
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Anon Y Mouse
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 13:33
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The court have reopened the case due to a "crossover of personal details" and should be resolved this afternoon.

The clerk I spoke to this morning still won't speak to me, but his colleague assured me it should all be resolved by close of play and I will get a phone call once the case is resolved.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 13:36
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QUOTE (Anon Y Mouse @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 13:33) *
The court have reopened the case due to a "crossover of personal details" and should be resolved this afternoon.

The clerk I spoke to this morning still won't speak to me, but his colleague assured me it should all be resolved by close of play and I will get a phone call once the case is resolved.


Sounds good.
Get something in writing that you can then use to beat DVLA over the head with.
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Anon Y Mouse
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 13:49
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Well they need to inform the DVLA anyway as they won't take my word for it. While the court hasn't directly admitted liability, they have admitted providing inaccurate information to the DVLA. I'm wondering how to go about claiming compensation now. £30 for a taxi to work this morning (public transport doesn't run early enough) Half the day on the phone, a weekend without sleep. Should be a tidy sum 😁
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southpaw82
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 13:54
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HMCTS are amenable to a claim for negligence.


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DancingDad
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 13:54
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Having a bit of paper makes the world of difference when DVLA are saying "we haven't got one"
You know the translation is "We haven't actioned it yet"

And something to show the cops if you are pulled before the letter from DVLA comes through.
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Anon Y Mouse
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 13:56
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I'll certainly ask them to email something, but in an age of PhotoShop, I'm not convinced the police will take any notice of a piece of paper when "computer says no"

They certainly didn't hang about in revoking my licence. The case was on November 28th and the letters were dated the 29th.

Goodness knows what would have happened if I had been stopped between the conviction and receiving the letter. It arrived on Saturday morning while I was out, but could easily have been away for a weekend with the family left out on the streets while I was in a cell.



This post has been edited by Anon Y Mouse: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 14:00
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Anon Y Mouse
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 16:19
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The good news is the courts overturned the ban. The bad news is they told me not to drive until the DVLA inform me they updated their details
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cabbyman
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 17:29
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Well done. Keep all those taxi receipts!


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Anon Y Mouse
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 17:56
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 17:29) *
Well done. Keep all those taxi receipts!

I am. It's not my fault if my boss has offered to pay them too is it?

They just called me back to confirm they had an automated response from the DVLA confirming receipt of their email and that they had asked for it to be dealt with urgently, but they said they don't have the authority to reinstate my licence and I have to wait for the DVLA tomorrow morning.

This post has been edited by Anon Y Mouse: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 17:57
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andy_foster
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:23
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Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence is only a small fine if the DVLA could issue a licence (if you are not disqualified from driving and do not have to pass any tests, etc.), and I cannot see that it would be in the public interest to prosecute if you were 'caught'. Technically we cannot advise you to commit a criminal offence, but if it were me I would continue driving.

This post has been edited by andy_foster: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:23


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Mr Rusty
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:32
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Andy, how would that square with insurance and the requirement to hold a licence? would an arsy insurance company use it as an excuse not to pay out? I'd chance the licence issue, not so sure about the insurance.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:33
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QUOTE (Mr Rusty @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:32) *
Andy, how would that square with insurance and the requirement to hold a licence? would an arsy insurance company use it as an excuse not to pay out? I'd chance the licence issue, not so sure about the insurance.

The requirement is normally "holds or has held and is not disqualified from holding".


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iwt
post Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:46
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Why should your boss pay because HMCTS fouled up?
Make a complaint; https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations...aints-procedure
Be prepared to keep escalating it; to https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/making-complai...ant-help/courts (although you will need to get your MP to sign off on the Ombudsman getting involved) if necessary.
A quick peek at https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/about-us/how-o.../case-summaries suggests you might get something somewhere between a formal apology and a formal apology, the taxi fees plus £100 for the inconvenience.
DVLA opens at 8am; don't drive until you've at least had confirmation (strongly recommend written confirmation) from them that your record has been cleared. If plod stops you and sees your record showing as disqualified, they just might detain you and impound your car. And then charge you through the nose for impound and storage fees...
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Anon Y Mouse
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 09:00
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Well the DVLA have been open for an hour. Still no email from them (the court say they instructed the DVLA to email me as soon as they had dealt with this) still showing as disqualified.

If I call the DVLA, what's the likelihood they claim the court have not updated them?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 10:05
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Just give them a call - you have the urgent requirement here, noone else!
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anon45
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 10:25
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:23) *
Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence is only a small fine if the DVLA could issue a licence (if you are not disqualified from driving and do not have to pass any tests, etc.), and I cannot see that it would be in the public interest to prosecute if you were 'caught'. Technically we cannot advise you to commit a criminal offence, but if it were me I would continue driving.

For the potential benefit of the OP, I recall you once suggesting that a purported revocation in a similar situation based on a DVLA/ court mistake was arguably null and void (ultra vires?), such that the driver arguably continues to hold a valid licence in the eyes of the law, notwithstanding the insistence of the DVLA to the contrary, so that no offence is committed by continuing to drive.

Would this apply here also, particularly if a "purposive" interpretation of the law is adopted?

This post has been edited by anon45: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 10:33
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samthecat
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 10:54
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QUOTE (anon45 @ Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 10:25) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 4 Dec 2017 - 20:23) *
Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence is only a small fine if the DVLA could issue a licence (if you are not disqualified from driving and do not have to pass any tests, etc.), and I cannot see that it would be in the public interest to prosecute if you were 'caught'. Technically we cannot advise you to commit a criminal offence, but if it were me I would continue driving.

For the potential benefit of the OP, I recall you once suggesting that a purported revocation in a similar situation based on a DVLA/ court mistake was arguably null and void (ultra vires?), such that the driver arguably continues to hold a valid licence in the eyes of the law, notwithstanding the insistence of the DVLA to the contrary, so that no offence is committed by continuing to drive.

Would this apply here also, particularly if a "purposive" interpretation of the law is adopted?



That may or may not be the case but.......

It's of little help if or when stopped by a cop at the roadside, I would be surprised if they listened much to it all being a mistake and certainly wouldn't want to take the chance.


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Anon Y Mouse
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 10:56
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 10:05) *
Just give them a call - you have the urgent requirement here, noone else!


They're telling me they have a 72 hour backlog but if I can get the name of the person who sent the email and the time it was sent they can search for it.

Contacted the court again, they told me to leave it with them and they will call the DVLA. It's now approaching a week since my licence was revoked.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 14:32
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Yep, and all you can do is keep on chasing

Because, and I am rpeating myself, YOU are the one with the urgent issue. theyre just a bunch of office workers, it matters very little to them.
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