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[NIP Wizard] NIP received over two months from offence. Advice please.
Kads1
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:02
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2017
Date of the NIP: - 69 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 71 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A64New York Road, Leeds, united Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Driving along the A64 which I believed to be a dual carriageway with a barrier and a speed limit of 60mph. drove under a bridge and the road had a slight bend and as I came from under the bridge the speed camera flashed.

I had recently moved and realised I had not changed address so I checked my log book and sent it to DVLA the day after the apparent offence. I contacted the DVLA one month after the event and ensured that the details were changed to my new address. during the call I made enquiries as to whether any request had been made with regard to any offence and was told that it had not.

I have received an NIP over two months from the date of the offence.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:02:28 +0000
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post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:02
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peterguk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:06
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Regardless of what DVLA told you, it is highly likely NIP was sent on time to address held by DVLA at the time. I doubt they have authority to disclose what enquiries may have been made by the Police.

Did you put mail forwarding into place?

Alleged speed?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:07


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cp8759
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:10
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What's the speed limit and alleged speed?

Also why did you believe the speed limit was 60mph?

QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 14:06) *
Regardless of what DVLA told you, it is highly likely NIP was sent on time to address held by DVLA at the time. I doubt they have authority to disclose what enquiries may have been made by the Police.

In any event the DVLA won't have that information. The police have a copy of the DVLA records on the police national computer, the DVLA has no idea if or when the police check their own computer.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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BertB
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:13
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QUOTE
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure


QUOTE
I had recently moved and realised I had not changed address so I checked my log book and sent it to DVLA the day after the apparent offence.


This will almost certainly be the reason for the late NIP.

With regard to your comment about DVLA saying no requests for details had been made. I believe the request for details is made on the PNC, which receives data uploads from the DVLA rather than them remote accessing the DVLA site. So I wouldn't expect there to be a record of access.
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BaggieBoy
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:39
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Assume it is camera: Street View

The 40MPH repeater just before the camera would tend ro suggest it is not a 60MPH limit.
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Jlc
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:40
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QUOTE (BertB @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:13) *
So I wouldn't expect there to be a record of access.

Correct. (Plus others that noted the same)

Regardless of any 'late' NIP the requirement to name the driver remains.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:43


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Churchmouse
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 22:32
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:39) *
Assume it is camera: Street View

The 40MPH repeater just before the camera would tend ro suggest it is not a 60MPH limit.

Or a 70MPH limit...

--Churchmouse
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Kads1
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 13:05
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:06) *
Regardless of what DVLA told you, it is highly likely NIP was sent on time to address held by DVLA at the time. I doubt they have authority to disclose what enquiries may have been made by the Police.

Did you put mail forwarding into place?

Alleged speed?


Hi,
mail forwarding was in place but ran out - new house, lots of work etc seems I forgot to update. Alleged speed was 49MPH.

Would the fact that the NIP has not been received for over 10 weeks (76 days) since the alleged offence give me some opportunity to reject on time. I have had no notice or indication that a previous notification was sent out.

If I was to contend as out of time do I need to return the 172 along with the rejection letter?

Regards
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peterguk
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 13:11
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QUOTE (Kads1 @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 13:05) *
Would the fact that the NIP has not been received for over 10 weeks (76 days) since the alleged offence give me some opportunity to reject on time.


There is no reason why the first NIP would not have been sent within time to the address held by DVLA at the time. It is only your fault you have only just received it.

You could put the police to proof by going to court, but expect it to be an expensive day out. You could ask them, but they don't have to tell you until you elect a court hearing.

49 in a 40 should result in a SAC should you choose to accept the allegation and not dione a SAC in last 3 years.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 13:12


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AntonyMMM
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 13:12
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You have no chance of arguing it is out of time - the reason for delay being of your own making. The NIP will have been sent to address on the records at the time of the offence.

There is nothing to "reject" in any case - it is just a notice. What you must do is to return the s172 requirement naming the driver. You can then chose to reject any offer of a course/FPN, and then argue your timeout case in court but with a huge increase in fine/costs should you lose.

If you want the option of a speed awareness course then that is also time sensitive - don't delay things much further or the offer won't be made.

This post has been edited by AntonyMMM: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 13:13
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bearclaw
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 15:30
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:39) *
Assume it is camera: Street View

The 40MPH repeater just before the camera would tend ro suggest it is not a 60MPH limit.


That catches lots of people out although it is now a facing camera with the magenta filter. The road itself is actually still motorway at that section - the A59(m) having just changed into the A64(m) but regardless it's well posted at 40 all the way along as is the regular non motorway grade part.



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