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Single Justice Procedure after paying fixed penalty for the same offence
Julls
post Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 16:32
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So here is the issue:
In the summer my boyfriend was stopped by a police officer because he was overtaking. Anyway that is not relevant. So all of us was pulled over and the officer start checking everything - from plates to tyres. He obviously was looking for something to write a fine. Everyone was fine except my boyfriend of course.
I few days later we got the fixed penalty for too small number plate and for tyre with less than 1mm thread. (He is commuting and never ever been stopped by police and we live in London!!)
So we paid the fines -200£ and 3 points and thought that is it.
Not really - 4 months later we got Notice for Single Justice Procedure for the exactly the same case. Can they do this??? The fine was paid, points were given and now again- I mean is it possible to be mistake? Who should we contact?
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post Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 16:32
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southpaw82
post Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 16:34
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Did your boyfriend surrender his driving licence?


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peterguk
post Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 16:42
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How did you pay the £200? Has it been refunded?

QUOTE (Julls @ Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 16:32) *
points were given


What does that mean?


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Logician
post Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 18:41
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In similar cases we have found that the fine has been paid but the licence was not sent in, without that the fixed penalty cannot be given. Therefore the court procedure is started and eventually the fine is refunded.


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Julls
post Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 19:45
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I think he did not surrender his driving licence. He did not know , he should.
It looks that that is why they have proceed to this. His been given 3 poinds and 100 for the number plate and 100 for the other. They refunded to his bank account 100£ only but he did not know that is because of that case.
Such a messed up. Does anybody knows who should he contact? There is no contact number or even e-mail on the notice
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southpaw82
post Sat, 25 Nov 2017 - 20:10
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It seems that he complied with the fixed penalty for the number plate offence (no need to surrender his licence for that). So the only offence that should be on the SJPN is "overtaking", by which I guess you mean speeding? The offer of a fixed penalty that came for that will almost certainly have told him to surrender his licence as well.

Who do you suggest he contacts? The matter is now proceeding to court and he can plead guilty or not guilty.


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The Rookie
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 06:26
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Just to summarise as I now see it.
He was stopped by the police due to the manner of his driving.

He was given a conditional offer of a fixed penalty for both the number plate and the tyre below minimum tread.

He appears to have complied with the CoFP for the number plate (is it actually on the SJPN?) but not for the bald tyre as he failed to read the offer and didn't submit his licence for endorsement (not that anything is actually done to it but it has to be submitted). He has no points as the fixed penalty couldn't be processed.

The case is now going to court. As he appears to accept his guilt, a guilty plea seems the best option, that would be by contacting the court as detailed in the notice.

The fixed penalty offer is now off the table.

May be worth him posting himself as a lot of things you are posting as fact are not.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 06:27


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Logician
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 10:50
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I agree with The Rookie's analysis, and if that is correct the SJPN should just be for the tyre offence. He does not need to contact anyone about it, as he tried to pay the fixed penalty he presumably accepts he is guilty, so he simply needs to tick that box on the form he will have been sent and return it to the court. He can deal with it all by post if he pleads guilty and he will not have to go to court.

If the number plate offence is on the SPJN then let us know.

This does show how important it is to read ALL of the documents you are sent about these matters. Read them together perhaps and do not make assumptions about what they say.

This post has been edited by Logician: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 11:24


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Julls
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 11:22
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ok, thank you everyone for the advices!!!
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StuartBu
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 13:05
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 06:26) *
snipped >>
He appears to have complied with the CoFP for the number plate (is it actually on the SJPN?) but not for the bald tyre as he failed to read the offer and didn't submit his licence for endorsement (not that anything is actually done to it but it has to be submitted). He has no points as the fixed penalty couldn't be processed.


Why do they do this ? Is it simply a confirmation that it is the correct person they are dealing with ..i:e the actual licence holder .
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peterguk
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 13:09
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 13:05) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 06:26) *
snipped >>
He appears to have complied with the CoFP for the number plate (is it actually on the SJPN?) but not for the bald tyre as he failed to read the offer and didn't submit his licence for endorsement (not that anything is actually done to it but it has to be submitted). He has no points as the fixed penalty couldn't be processed.


Why do they do this ? Is it simply a confirmation that it is the correct person they are dealing with ..i:e the actual licence holder .


AIUI, the law still requires it.


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The Rookie
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 14:31
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As you say, it's required by law, there also seems no particular rush to change that aspect for whatever reason.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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cp8759
post Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 15:38
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 14:05) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 06:26) *
snipped >>
He appears to have complied with the CoFP for the number plate (is it actually on the SJPN?) but not for the bald tyre as he failed to read the offer and didn't submit his licence for endorsement (not that anything is actually done to it but it has to be submitted). He has no points as the fixed penalty couldn't be processed.


Why do they do this ? Is it simply a confirmation that it is the correct person they are dealing with ..i:e the actual licence holder .

Well come to think of it, it would be quite dangerous if they didn't. Imagine I lived in a shared house, I got caught speeding, I just name a housemate, forge his signature on his own NIP, pay the fine, points go on his licence, and if he never has reason to check in a four year period (i.e. no accidents / police stops / fines of his own) nobody will ever know.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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StuartBu
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 12:06
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 15:38) *
Well come to think of it, it would be quite dangerous if they didn't. Imagine I lived in a shared house, I got caught speeding, I just name a housemate, forge his signature on his own NIP, pay the fine, points go on his licence, and if he never has reason to check in a four year period (i.e. no accidents / police stops / fines of his own) nobody will ever know.


Dangerous .?? well I suppose that's one way of describing getting some jail time for PCOJ
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cp8759
post Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 12:12
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 13:06) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 26 Nov 2017 - 15:38) *
Well come to think of it, it would be quite dangerous if they didn't. Imagine I lived in a shared house, I got caught speeding, I just name a housemate, forge his signature on his own NIP, pay the fine, points go on his licence, and if he never has reason to check in a four year period (i.e. no accidents / police stops / fines of his own) nobody will ever know.


Dangerous .?? well I suppose that's one way of describing getting some jail time for PCOJ

So there's two possible response to being a victim to such a scam:
A) "oh it's fine, my housemate is going to go to prison for this so it's totally cool with me", or
B) "Why the f##k have the authorities set up this stupid system that has allowed this to happen in the first place, how could they put points on my licence when my licence never left my wallet?!?!?"

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 - 12:12


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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TheDisapprovingB...
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 11:25
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C) Suppose it's somebody who borrowed your car on a single occasion, possibly without your consent. If you don't find out about the points until a few years later, you'd have no idea what the original offence related to.
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StuartBu
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 12:22
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QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 11:25) *
C) Suppose it's somebody who borrowed your car on a single occasion, possibly without your consent. If you don't find out about the points until a few years later, you'd have no idea what the original offence related to.


If someone borrowed your car and committed an offence the RK would be asked who the driver was so would be aware at that point that something had happened .
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cp8759
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 12:37
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 13:22) *
QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 11:25) *
C) Suppose it's somebody who borrowed your car on a single occasion, possibly without your consent. If you don't find out about the points until a few years later, you'd have no idea what the original offence related to.


If someone borrowed your car and committed an offence the RK would be asked who the driver was so would be aware at that point that something had happened .

The premise of this (as per post #13) is that if you're in a house in multiple occupancy, there's no guarantee the RK will see the S172 request. If the day the s172 request comes in the post the person who "borrowed" the car happens to pick up the post from the doormat before anyone else, the RK may well not find out anything until he already has (through no fault of his own) points on his licence. The same problem might arise if the offence is committed by a (pretty scummy) member of the RK's household.

In light of that, requiring the person who's going to be given points on their licence to actually send in their physical licence seems a perfectly sensible safeguard.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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