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DVLA SJPN, Unlicensed keeping of motor vehicle.
Skatesuk
post Fri, 17 Nov 2017 - 17:40
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Hello everybody. I’m sorry to come cap in hand but I cannot make head not tail of what is happening and need some help please.
The background. I did a straight swap with a dealer on the 31/05/17 a Subaru for a BMW. When I got the vehicle home I applied to tax online with the V5C. The application didn’t go through. I phoned the DVLA and was advised that the dealer had not registered the BMW, the V5 the dealer had was from the owner who had part exchanged. As such there was a months tax unnaccounted for and the application to tax online was rejected. I was advised to fill out a V62 pay £25 and 6 months tax and it would be sorted, which I did a couple of days later.
On the 24/06 I woke up to my car being clamped. I called the clamp company who referred me to the DVLA. Speaking with the DVLA I was told the V62 had not been processed and could take another 2 weeks. They advised to keep the car off the road to prevent it being clamped again. They did confirm that the tax would eventually be back dated to the date I purchased the vehicle. I removed the clamp myself and while still using the vehicle made sure it was parked on private land. A further 5 days later the vehicle was showing as taxed online and another 2 days later the V5 arrived in my name. I did receive another letter from the DVLA that said they could fine me for the untaxed period. I called them again and explained and they asked me to appeal in writing. Which I never did.

Today I have received an SJPN asking me for my plea. I have filled the paperwork in claiming not guilty as I believe that I was taxed from when I sent the V62 and payment, the delay in processing is the fault of the DVLA and this is the reason it is back dated.
My issues are that the SJPN states unlicensed keeping of vehicle on the 24/06 section 29(1) previous licence expired on 30/04/17 annual rate of duty £245 and asks for my plea.
The plea by post section at the top states unlicensed keeping 24/06 as above it also adds at the bottom if found guilty the Agency will apply for costs of at least £85 and the court will order a penalty of £20.42 for the outstanding duty for the 31/05 the day I traded the car. I’m sure I was told on the telephone that they would let me off that day but I currently have no proof. The DVLA say it will take 6 weeks to provide phone records.
I have 2 witness statements one from the enforcement officer who saw the car on the road and another from the DVLA which states I became the registered keeper on the 31/05 and on the 17/07 a request was made for the name and address of the person responsible for the vehicle on the 24/06, A written reply as required has not been received nor has the letter been returned. To date no notification has been received that the vehicle had been disposed of prior to the date of the offence.

I’m at a complete loss as to what I’m being accused of and what I’m responsible for? The DVLA have had my name and address as it was on both forms plus they have written to me. I have never denied owning the car or that it had been disposed of. I have endeavoured to get the car registered to me. The magistrates court is over 200 miles from where I live which has put me off just turning up and getting an explanation. Am I best to plead not guilty, or guilty with mitigation (in person or by post) Any advice would be gratefully received.

This post has been edited by Skatesuk: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 00:21
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post Fri, 17 Nov 2017 - 17:40
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localdriver
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 17:43
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QUOTE (Skatesuk @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 14:58) *
Well the date on the V62 was the 31/05. Do the DVLA really think they picked my name at random and applied it to a random untaxed car on a random date and that the V62 and payment for 6 months tax sitting on their desk was merely a coincidence?!


That, and your explanation in your first post is confusing, and possibly caused by not following the correct procedure when taxing the vehicle - it needs to be done on-line or in person at a post office that deals with vehicle tax - not by post.

When the dealer supplied the car, they should have given you the green V5C/2 'New Keeper Supplement' of the old keeper's V5C, and you should have used the details from that supplement (which is different to the main V5C), to tax the car either on-line or at a post office that deals with vehicle tax. Without the V5C/2, it would need to be taxed with form V62 at a post office as above.

The dealer doesn't register vehicles - you and the dealer should have complete the relevant parts of the old keepers V5C, and the dealer should have sent it to the DVLA, or notified them on line - and just given you the V5C/2 from it.







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nigelbb
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 03:11
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QUOTE (localdriver @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 18:43) *
When the dealer supplied the car, they should have given you the green V5C/2 'New Keeper Supplement' of the old keeper's V5C, and you should have used the details from that supplement (which is different to the main V5C), to tax the car either on-line or at a post office that deals with vehicle tax. Without the V5C/2, it would need to be taxed with form V62 at a post office as above.

The dealer doesn't register vehicles - you and the dealer should have complete the relevant parts of the old keepers V5C, and the dealer should have sent it to the DVLA, or notified them on line - and just given you the V5C/2 from it.

A few months ago I backed out of the purchase of a car because the dealer couldn't supply the V5C/2 & I could see what a monumental pain it was going to be to get the car taxed. I don't think that you can tax the car with a V62 at the Post Office if you are not already the RK as the V62 is just the application for a new V5C. It specifically states on the V62 "If you are not the registered keeper of the vehicle you may not be able to tax until you get a V5C in your name." It also states if you bought the vehicle from the previous keeper or motor trader and have not received a V5C yet that you should allow four weeks from the date you bought the vehicle before you can use the V62 to apply for a replacement V5C.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 03:12


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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localdriver
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 08:26
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That appears to be the OP's problem. Unless you are the registered keeper, you need to have the V5C/2 to tax a vehicle. Without it, you have to use form V62 and wait until you are the registered keeper before you can tax a vehicle.



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gilan02
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 09:07
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QUOTE (localdriver @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 18:43) *
When the dealer supplied the car, they should have given you the green V5C/2 'New Keeper Supplement' of the old keeper's V5C, and you should have used the details from that supplement (which is different to the main V5C), to tax the car either on-line or at a post office that deals with vehicle tax. Without the V5C/2, it would need to be taxed with form V62 at a post office as above.


When my son bought his car he also could not tax it online using the V5C/2. Also the Post Office's systems required a V62 in addition to the V5C/2.
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oldstoat
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 17:25
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From the OP first post

They advised to keep the car off the road to prevent it being clamped again. They did confirm that the tax would eventually be back dated to the date I purchased the vehicle. I removed the clamp myself and while still using the vehicle made sure it was parked on private land.

whih implies the vehicle was not taxed whilst being on the road.

followed by

A further 5 days later the vehicle was showing as taxed online and another 2 days later the V5 arrived in my name. I did receive another letter from the DVLA that said they could fine me for the untaxed period. I called them again and explained and they asked me to appeal in writing. Which I never did.

The last four words are rather relevant surely.

The OP was told to do something and did not do it.


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MikeJJ
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:44
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This is a well-known legal scam perpetuated by DoT via DVLA. Since the new regulation, which disposed of the tax disc came into force, as soon as a car is sold it immediately becomes untaxed and the balance of (in full months) tax is refunded to the seller. The car is now untaxed. A new owner must tax the car immediately before it can be used on the road. This tax runs from the beginning of the month in which it is purchased. (In the old system any remaining tax could be sold on with the car - that is no longer the case).
As you might deduce this means that in many cases the DVLA actually gets paid double tax for part of the same month. A lot of people think that is not fair but that's how it is at the moment.
The DVLA has also been a bit low key in publicising the new rules and pretty smart in getting their clamping trucks on the road catching loads of unsuspecting citizens like the OP.
Many might think that is close to sharp practice on behalf of the Government but this is not the forum to discuss it!
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Logician
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 01:52
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QUOTE (MikeJJ @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:44) *
This is a well-known legal scam perpetuated by DoT via DVLA. Since the new regulation, which disposed of the tax disc came into force, as soon as a car is sold it immediately becomes untaxed and the balance of (in full months) tax is refunded to the seller. The car is now untaxed. A new owner must tax the car immediately before it can be used on the road. This tax runs from the beginning of the month in which it is purchased. (In the old system any remaining tax could be sold on with the car - that is no longer the case). As you might deduce this means that in many cases the DVLA actually gets paid double tax for part of the same month. A lot of people think that is not fair but that's how it is at the moment. The DVLA has also been a bit low key in publicising the new rules and pretty smart in getting their clamping trucks on the road catching loads of unsuspecting citizens like the OP. Many might think that is close to sharp practice on behalf of the Government but this is not the forum to discuss it!


I agree the new system double charges for the month ownership changes hands but the new system is actually costing the government a lot of money, £107 million pa was estimated recently, about ten times the estimated saving from abolishing tax discs. As a scam it is a total failure!



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Churchmouse
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 11:36
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QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 01:52) *
QUOTE (MikeJJ @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:44) *
This is a well-known legal scam perpetuated by DoT via DVLA. Since the new regulation, which disposed of the tax disc came into force, as soon as a car is sold it immediately becomes untaxed and the balance of (in full months) tax is refunded to the seller. The car is now untaxed. A new owner must tax the car immediately before it can be used on the road. This tax runs from the beginning of the month in which it is purchased. (In the old system any remaining tax could be sold on with the car - that is no longer the case). As you might deduce this means that in many cases the DVLA actually gets paid double tax for part of the same month. A lot of people think that is not fair but that's how it is at the moment. The DVLA has also been a bit low key in publicising the new rules and pretty smart in getting their clamping trucks on the road catching loads of unsuspecting citizens like the OP. Many might think that is close to sharp practice on behalf of the Government but this is not the forum to discuss it!


I agree the new system double charges for the month ownership changes hands but the new system is actually costing the government a lot of money, £107 million pa was estimated recently, about ten times the estimated saving from abolishing tax discs. As a scam it is a total failure!

Is it "actually costing the government a lot of money"? Do you have the figures?

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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 12:36
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Tax avoidance has gone up, basically.
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disgrunt
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 13:37
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With a nice disc in the window any passer by could see if a car was taxed and report it if they wanted to. (Happened to my neighbour once, but it wasn’t me). Now all a person has to do is declare sorn and only ANPR cars will catch them.
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Fredd
post Fri, 1 Dec 2017 - 13:41
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There's a thread in the News section if you want to debate the ethics of the new vehicle licensing arrangements - it's not helping the OP here.


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