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DVLA SJPN, Unlicensed keeping of motor vehicle.
Skatesuk
post Fri, 17 Nov 2017 - 17:40
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Hello everybody. I’m sorry to come cap in hand but I cannot make head not tail of what is happening and need some help please.
The background. I did a straight swap with a dealer on the 31/05/17 a Subaru for a BMW. When I got the vehicle home I applied to tax online with the V5C. The application didn’t go through. I phoned the DVLA and was advised that the dealer had not registered the BMW, the V5 the dealer had was from the owner who had part exchanged. As such there was a months tax unnaccounted for and the application to tax online was rejected. I was advised to fill out a V62 pay £25 and 6 months tax and it would be sorted, which I did a couple of days later.
On the 24/06 I woke up to my car being clamped. I called the clamp company who referred me to the DVLA. Speaking with the DVLA I was told the V62 had not been processed and could take another 2 weeks. They advised to keep the car off the road to prevent it being clamped again. They did confirm that the tax would eventually be back dated to the date I purchased the vehicle. I removed the clamp myself and while still using the vehicle made sure it was parked on private land. A further 5 days later the vehicle was showing as taxed online and another 2 days later the V5 arrived in my name. I did receive another letter from the DVLA that said they could fine me for the untaxed period. I called them again and explained and they asked me to appeal in writing. Which I never did.

Today I have received an SJPN asking me for my plea. I have filled the paperwork in claiming not guilty as I believe that I was taxed from when I sent the V62 and payment, the delay in processing is the fault of the DVLA and this is the reason it is back dated.
My issues are that the SJPN states unlicensed keeping of vehicle on the 24/06 section 29(1) previous licence expired on 30/04/17 annual rate of duty £245 and asks for my plea.
The plea by post section at the top states unlicensed keeping 24/06 as above it also adds at the bottom if found guilty the Agency will apply for costs of at least £85 and the court will order a penalty of £20.42 for the outstanding duty for the 31/05 the day I traded the car. I’m sure I was told on the telephone that they would let me off that day but I currently have no proof. The DVLA say it will take 6 weeks to provide phone records.
I have 2 witness statements one from the enforcement officer who saw the car on the road and another from the DVLA which states I became the registered keeper on the 31/05 and on the 17/07 a request was made for the name and address of the person responsible for the vehicle on the 24/06, A written reply as required has not been received nor has the letter been returned. To date no notification has been received that the vehicle had been disposed of prior to the date of the offence.

I’m at a complete loss as to what I’m being accused of and what I’m responsible for? The DVLA have had my name and address as it was on both forms plus they have written to me. I have never denied owning the car or that it had been disposed of. I have endeavoured to get the car registered to me. The magistrates court is over 200 miles from where I live which has put me off just turning up and getting an explanation. Am I best to plead not guilty, or guilty with mitigation (in person or by post) Any advice would be gratefully received.

This post has been edited by Skatesuk: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 - 00:21
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post Fri, 17 Nov 2017 - 17:40
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Skatesuk
post Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 18:46
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Sorry I’m just a bit stressed about the whole thing. I should have appealed as advised but I thought they would send me an actual figure not “you may be fined” and then an SJPN. DVLA say it’s in the hands of the court now and that I should plead not guilty. A day off work and a minimum 6 hour round trip to the court makes me think that I’d rather just pay up for anything less than £500. Despite the principal.
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IanJohnsonWS14
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 08:05
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Isn't everyone missing the point.

OP admits he drove away from the dealer before applying for tax. Case closed

He later applied for tax - too late, he has already committed the offence.

If he had applied at the dealer online while at the dealer perhaps the documentation issues would have been resolved or he would have had the opportunity not to drive away in the car (avoiding committing the offence) but we will never know now.



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peterguk
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 08:33
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QUOTE (IanJohnsonWS14 @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 08:05) *
Isn't everyone missing the point.


Not at all. We know he drove the car untaxed for two days.


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Skatesuk
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 14:22
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I didn’t get caught driving without tax when I drove home from the dealer. The DVLA are only aware or can prove the car was parked outside my address in London 26 days after I acquired it. By this point they would have spoken to me at least 3 times and I would still have been waiting on the paperwork as they advised.
I’m honest enough to admit that I was driving the car regularly. But I could lie and say the car was not driven, that I do not have off street parking and didn’t have anywhere else to keep it until the problem could be resolved.
It also annoys me that the DVLA are asking for the payment for May as part of the court order, like again I haven’t paid it. The truth being I paid them for 6 months tax and they chose to apply it from 01/06 and not 01/05. As said on the phone we will let you off that day but the SJNP goes against their word. Do I maybe have a case that we had a verbal agreement in place?
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Skatesuk
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 14:40
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QUOTE (IanJohnsonWS14 @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 08:05) *
Isn't everyone missing the point.

OP admits he drove away from the dealer before applying for tax. Case closed

He later applied for tax - too late, he has already committed the offence.

If he had applied at the dealer online while at the dealer perhaps the documentation issues would have been resolved or he would have had the opportunity not to drive away in the car (avoiding committing the offence) but we will never know now.


It has been admitted by the DVLA many times that the issues could only and would only be resolved by posting the documents. The DVLA could have told me that this series of events would happen and I would have returned the car to the dealer.
The DVLA actually told me to take this route, that the tax would be backdated, that they would let me off the last day of the month. That I may receive a fine and that I should appeal it if I do.
Instead of receiving a fine to appeal I have received an SJPN, they have included in this a reversal on the last day of the month let off. I cannot appeal it. I can only plead guilty, guilty with mitigation or not guilty.
I am looking at damage limitation here. Plead guilty and pay the £80 fine everyone else receives no problem. Plead guilty and supply an MC100 let them pick a number, rather not!
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localdriver
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 17:52
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A problem is that what you were told by the DVLA was wrong, if you couldn't tax it on-line using the details from the green V5C/2 - the New Keeper Supplement part of the V5C, the advice should have been to tax it in person at a post office.

This post has been edited by localdriver: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 17:53
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Jimzzr
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 18:43
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QUOTE (localdriver @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 17:52) *
A problem is that what you were told by the DVLA was wrong, if you couldn't tax it on-line using the details from the green V5C/2 - the New Keeper Supplement part of the V5C, the advice should have been to tax it in person at a post office.


According to the OP he did tax it at the post office 5 days after he purchased the, and was backdated to the 1st of June.

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localdriver
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 20:25
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QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 18:43) *
According to the OP he did tax it at the post office 5 days after he purchased the, and was backdated to the 1st of June.


According to the OP's first post, it was 5 days after the car was clamped on 25th June. In post 3 the OP sent the V62 and payment, in post 5 it was paid at the post office.







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Skatesuk
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 20:56
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QUOTE (localdriver @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 20:25) *
QUOTE (Jimzzr @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 18:43) *
According to the OP he did tax it at the post office 5 days after he purchased the, and was backdated to the 1st of June.


According to the OP's first post, it was 5 days after the car was clamped on 25th June. In post 3 the OP sent the V62 and payment, in post 5 it was paid at the post office.


It was 5 days after it was clamped that it was showing online as taxed.
When I say I sent the V62 and payment I mean I went to the post office filled out the V62, paid the post office for the v62 and 6 months tax and they sent it off for me. I don’t know how the post office actually pay the DVLA.

This post has been edited by Skatesuk: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 21:04
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Skatesuk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 12:17
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Hello again, a couple of updates I’m not sure are relevant.
I reapplied for the SJPN to be sent as I wanted to fill it out properly after the advice given. They have sent more paperwork than before which also includes the fine. Which happens to be less than the fuel costs to get to court. So I’m happy not to argue. Is it possible the pay it at this stage or has it gone too far?
My bank records show that they took a payment for the exchanged car in June that has not been refunded to date.
I am also being charged the untaxed period 31/05 as the DVLA have applied my payment from the 01/06 am I really liable that the DVLA applied my tax from the wrong date?
Can I plead guilty to the ‘grey’ area of driving without tax and not guilty to the dvla applying my payment from the wrong date? The paperwork doesn’t have this option?
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peterguk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 12:21
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So you applied for and paid for VED in June, starting 1st of June? And drove the car untaxed in May?


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Skatesuk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:02
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 12:21) *
So you applied for and paid for VED in June, starting 1st of June? And drove the car untaxed in May?


I drove the car untaxed in May and June having paid 6 months VED on the understanding it would be backdated.
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ford poplar
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:21
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It is only 'back dated' to start of the month of Issue.
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Skatesuk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:49
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The month of issue being the month payment was taken and not the month on the V62?
As it happens this is the month the 6 months prepaid runs out and they are not starting the direct debit payments until the 5th of December. So I am to assume that I need to declare the car SORN and park it off the road from the 1st to the 5th to stop this all from happening again? It’s beyond ridiculous.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 14:25
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It's backdated to the start of the month in which it's paid and runs to the end of the sixth month, it never ends part way through a month, ever, unless the reg keeper is changed.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 14:25


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peterguk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 14:34
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QUOTE (Skatesuk @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 13:49) *
It’s beyond ridiculous.


VED has always started on the 1st of the month in which it is paid, or the month the applicant elected it should start.


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Skatesuk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 14:58
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Well the date on the V62 was the 31/05.
Do the DVLA really think they picked my name at random and applied it to a random untaxed car on a random date and that the V62 and payment for 6 months tax sitting on their desk was merely a coincidence?!
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The Rookie
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 15:21
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Now I've no idea what you are on about.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Skatesuk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 15:33
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Don’t worry about it. I’ve just spoken to a solicitor and got some useful advice.
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peterguk
post Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 15:37
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QUOTE (Skatesuk @ Tue, 28 Nov 2017 - 15:33) *
Don’t worry about it. I’ve just spoken to a solicitor and got some useful advice.


Excellent! And the advice was?


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