Non-existent parking fine and GDPR violation Options

[rcldriver]

I've just received a notice of enforcement from a debt collection company (I'm from the UK) outlining a fee to be paid for a parking penalty at a location on a given date.

I called the company up as I don't believe I was at this location on this date, and the only way they'll discuss the account with me is if I give them my national insurance number and/or my date of birth. Information I'm hesitant to share with a company which is, out of the blue, asking for money from me.

They've outlined the debt as owed to Cardiff county council, who I've contacted and have said there is a debt to be paid, but for a totally un-related infraction (not a parking fee) on a completely different date.

I don't want to ignore it, as I know the collection tactics will get more and more aggressive and I don't want that in my life. But I also can't discuss the fine with the company, who will provide me with no evidence as to the fine unless I hand over my name, address, date of birth and national insurance number.

I've been told I can pursue a late witness statement form (TE9 and TE7), but it looks like a lot of paperwork, and the idea of having to jump through a load of hoops for a fine which is non-existent really grinds with me

Does anyone know what my options are in regards to the incorrect notice of enforcement or the sharing of information which I believe to be non GDPR compliant?


Thanks very much!

As an aside, the other fine is for travelling in a bus lane, on a date months apart, I suspect this is what I'm supposed to be being fined for, but I've never received anything prior to this private debt collector letter, probably as I moved house in May.

I've also submitted a t9 to the TEC, who won't accept it without a reference number, which I don't have.

This post has been edited by rcldriver: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 16:05

[Advertisement]

[Neil B]

As an aside, the other fine is for travelling in a bus lane, on a date months apart, I suspect this is what I'm supposed to be being fined for, but I've never received anything prior to this private debt collector letter, probably as I moved house in May.

So there's two?

You're very confused.

Show us what you received and explain further what Cardiff said.

There clearly IS a traffic debt or debts but we (you) need the detail.

Imo, the questions they are asking are to confirm your identity, in adherence to GDPR.

as I moved house in May.

And of course updated your V5C ?

this private debt collector letter

No, an Enforcement Agent (bailiff) with a full, legal, Court warrant against you.

We deal with these all the time.

[rcldriver]

Hey Neil,

Thanks for your reply, I'll try and explain the situation a little better.

I moved home in May of this year, and updated my V5C within about a week of doing so.

This week I received a letter from a debt collection agency, aledging that I owe money to Cardiff County Council for, quote:

"Unpaid parking penalty in respect of <my reg> on xx/08/18 at North Road, City Center."

As I had not received any documentation prior to this, I was concerned as in the itemised bill, including a 'compliance stage fee', and there is no evidence in this letter that this event took place. I'm hesitant to upload the doc, as it includes personal information, but that above quote is the crux of the matter (I believe).

I called the company who have issued this letter, and they are requiring me to supply them with

My full name and address, which I obliged, as they've sent me a letter and clearly have this information.

They continued to ask for my date of birth and national insurance number for security checks. As I do not know this company, and do not believe the incident I am being fined for took place, I politely refused to give them that information and they informed me they would not be prepared to speak to me about the matter without that information. My GDPR suspicion is that a debt-collector should not have access to information such as my date-of-birth, or National insurance number, and it should not have been supplied to them by the council or whomever else.

Anyway,

As I was still confused as to the letter I have received, I called Cardiff Council, who informed me that there is an unpaid penalty against my vehicle for driving in a buse lane on a completely different date (it's months apart). This event is from over three months past, and I can't recall my exact actions on that day, but I've been supplied with no evidence or previous correspondance from the council on this matter.

That could be because I moved house in May - The council told me on the phone that they had sent letters out to me at my previous address, but they were returned to sender.

In summary:

The only piece of correspondance I have had is from a debt collection agency regarding an event that the council do not have any record of - and I have no way of rectifying the situation withouth giving this agency my date of birth and national insurance number - and I'm very cautious about giving out information like that freely, especially to a debt collection agency who are alledging I owe money for an infraction that didn't exist.

What it would appear has happened is that I may have driven through a bus lane (I'd want to see evidence, but it may have happened, I don't know), the council has sent correspondance to an address I moved from, had those letters returned to sender, sold the debt to a collection agency and at some point, either at the council's end or at the agency's end, the exact details of the infraction have become incorrect, in that both the infraction I'm being fined for and the date in question are incorrect.

I understand the correct thing to do in this case is speak to the TEC, which I've tried, but without a PCN number (which I don't have), they can't intervene.

I hope that clears it up!

PS. Pardon my use of 'debt collection agency', I see that differs from what this entity may actually be, I'm not a legal guy and am not sure of the difference.

This post has been edited by rcldriver: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 16:48

[rcldriver]

In fact, here's the doc


This is the only correspondance I've received from anyone regarding this issue.

I don't recall exactly what cardiff council said, but the long and the short of it is there is no infraction on this date (or within a few weeks either side) and their records show one bus lane infraction, no parking.

This post has been edited by rcldriver: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 17:01

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[PASTMYBEST]

That the council confirm all correspondence was returned to sender is interesting That being so the documents are not served

Bailiffs can and will remove your property if you do not deal with this

First give exact dates When you moved when you updated v5c and date of PCN also date of contravention

TE7 and 9 are the way to go but need a bit of care so let Neil in particular help you

[Neil B]

In fact, here's the doc

Ok this one's ok for a couple of days.
The 'their ref' should be the PCN number?

Find out the status of the bus lane one and get a PCN number.

_---

You should not have given your address.

I see what you mean re GDPR now.

That the council confirm all correspondence was returned to sender is interesting That being so the documents are not served

And helps us.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 17:16

[rcldriver]

Euuuurghh,

Now that I review my documentation, I didn't update the V5C, only the details with my insurer and on the vehicle tax.

Presumably I no longer have a leg to stand on.

That being said, the above is still all true, but since I've messed up here, I guess the fact the docs didn't get served is entirely my own fault.

This post has been edited by rcldriver: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 17:20

[Neil B]

edit

due your last.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 17:21

[rcldriver]

I don't recall exactly what cardiff council said, but the long and the short of it is there is no infraction on this date (or within a few weeks either side) and their records show one bus lane infraction, no parking.

And you would have received notices if, as you say, V5 updated.
So maybe Excel have crossed wires on cases.

Sorry to have potentially wasted your time mate, as above the V5 appears to be the only thing I DIDNT update...

[PASTMYBEST]

Euuuurghh,

Now that I review my documentation, I didn't update the V5C, only the details with my insurer and on the vehicle tax.

Presumably I no longer have a leg to stand on.

That being said, the above is still all true, but since I've messed up here, I guess the fact the docs didn't get served is entirely my own fault.

not helpful, but not fatal you will be completing two documents TE7 and 9 one is a simple declaration that you did not receive the documents PCN CC and OfR the other is an application to the court to submit this out of time. The council may object to this. Usually because the say we have sent out all documents to the address held by DVLA they have not been returned so are deemed served. You need to rebut this presumption of service (this is where you will need help. But the council have already given you a lot of help, they confirm mail has been returned to sender so there can be no presumption of service

[rcldriver]

I'll fill out a TE7 and 9 using that number on the form, but Cardiff suggested that the number I needed started with a QC or something, I'll see how far I get with these numbers and try contacting cardiff again to get the correct ones otherwise.

Thanks for your help and I'll keep you posted.

[Neil B]

No.
Don't go rushing this and guessing numbers.

Getting the body of TE7 right needs work; without you trying to wing applications.

More later.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 - 10:10

[Neil B]

that number on the form,

How many digits is it?

If 8 then surely Cardiff have the minimum of savvy to add possible prefixes.
Ask them again.

---

And note the duties of a bailiff at s7 (e) (i).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/part/2/made


DO NOT attempt applications to the Court without first establishing all the facts, dates, etc and
discussing further here.

[hcandersen]

they confirm mail has been returned to sender so there can be no presumption of service



So all anyone needs to do to avoid uncomfortable mail is to write(or possibly get someone else to write) 'Retun to Sender' on the envelope and then everything's hunky dory!

[Steve_999]

I understand that the collection company wouldn't divulge the number for the one they are chasing, but when Cardiff confirmed an outstanding PCN (even if it might be a separate one) did they also refuse to disclose the number?
Surely you need to, as belt and braces, treat that as a second PCN and do a declaration against that one if you can get the number?

[PASTMYBEST]

they confirm mail has been returned to sender so there can be no presumption of service



So all anyone needs to do to avoid uncomfortable mail is to write(or possibly get someone else to write) 'Retun to Sender' on the envelope and then everything's hunky dory!

That's just being obtuse. I have had many letters in my time that I wish I hadn't. but never knew until I'd opened them And even if you want to carry on, then having an entirely different address and the letters being returned would be a pretty firm rebuttal

[cabbyman]

Is this your thread referred to in Completed Cases?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=125498&hl=