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[NIP Wizard] 14 day NIP on the limit
PeterM538
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:21
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2016
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 15 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A3 Liphook rd
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I am really questioning the 14 day period. the date on the NIP is the 18th however the envelope was dated 26/05/15 so I believe outside the period.

Should I write a letter back rejecting under the time scales but also still fill in the S172?

Also if I contest this and lose am I still able to do the course?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 27 May 2016 14:21:10 +0000
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post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:21
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southpaw82
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:25
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You can't reject a notice but you can point out to them their lack of compliance with the 14 day rule. The notice is deemed served two business days after posting if sent by first class post, although it only seems to have taken one day in your case. Are you sure the details on your V5C are correct?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Bipolar
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:27
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The link in the NIP Wizard to RAC's legal advice gives you template letters to use. You can also read Gidden vs Chief Constable of Humberside

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html

Peter posts on here as Peterguk hopefully will advise as well.
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Jlc
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:28
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Normally, the notice is presumed delivered 2 working days after the date on the NIP - so the 20th, which would have been within the 14 day period.

It is your presumption to rebut - but with a date on the envelope exactly 2 weeks after the offence then there's no way the NIP could be delivered in time.

As you note the s172 request must be satisfied.

When you point this out to the force involved they may well agree and rescind or more likely that'll say that if you want to contest then the matter would have to go to court. (And a course would not be an option)

On the face of it you appear to have a solid defence as you can rebut the presumption but it may go as far as a hearing. All assuming this is the 1st NIP.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:29


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:33
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:28) *
Normally, the notice is presumed delivered 2 working days after the date on the NIP - so the 20th, which would have been within the 14 day period.

From the date of posting, not the date of the notice, surely?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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PeterM538
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:35
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Thanks all, yes I am sure this is the 1st NIP, I have not moved in the past 5 years and had the car for longer. So there is no case of delay due to this, and my V5c is correct.

I think it is worth filling in the form and electing the course. but with a cover letter and see were we go.




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Jlc
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:38
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:33) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:28) *
Normally, the notice is presumed delivered 2 working days after the date on the NIP - so the 20th, which would have been within the 14 day period.

From the date of posting, not the date of the notice, surely?

Well indeed, but presuming they remember to post it rather than 'sitting' on it for almost a week...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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PeterM538
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:44
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It seems they did sit on it.

To be fair the paper looks like it was caught in a printer jam..
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Jlc
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:47
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You can always make a bemused phone call first. Tell them that the envelope is dated day 14 and therefore it can't possibly arrive within the statutory 14 days.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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PeterM538
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:23
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They have an email address on top of their NIP, so sent it off to that lets wait and see.

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Gan
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:35
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QUOTE (PeterM538 @ Fri, 27 May 2016 - 16:23) *
They have an email address on top of their NIP, so sent it off to that lets wait and see.

Would have been better to have waited to inform them in case you've miscalculated
Day 1 is the day after the alleged offence

The notice is deemed delivered two business days after posting.
With a weekend and bank holiday in the way that wouldn't be until next Tuesday and well outside the deadline
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Jlc
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:47
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What deadline? It's outside the 14 days so contact is 'safe'.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Gan
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 16:01
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We've had OPs that miscalculated the 14 days
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PeterM538
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 17:37
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True I could have said it was only delivered tomorrow or even Tuesday, but to be fair the incident happened on the 12th, and today I got the letter being the 27th.
So the 13th is the 1st day
14th is the 2nd
and so on until I get to today being the 15th day!

And would rather clear it up keeping to the clear facts, rather than bend the truth with regards of when the NIP arrived.

Thanks all
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southpaw82
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 18:59
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QUOTE (PeterM538 @ Fri, 27 May 2016 - 18:37) *
rather than bend the truth with regards of when the NIP arrived.

AKA perverting the course of justice/perjury.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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andy_foster
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 19:07
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AIUI, the OP was being polite regarding his understanding of the corrected version of Jlc's point.

Most of us understand the difference between relying on the deeming provision when we know that the notice was in fact delivered sooner, and actually claiming that it was delivered then. The OP does not need to do so as the envelope is dated on day 14, and does not need to concern himself about what or where the line is. He may well have thought that relying on the deeming provision would involve an actual statement, and presumably did not want to accuse those who are trying to help of of suggesting what he would probably understand to be perjury.


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Jlc
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 19:13
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Indeed, the date on the envelope is sufficient. The date isn't always there...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Kickaha
post Fri, 27 May 2016 - 21:01
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It is also important that you do not neglect the 172 request, make sure you send that off in plenty of time.
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PeterM538
post Tue, 31 May 2016 - 16:55
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Update for you all. So email back today apologising for any distress caused and case closed. I am off the hook, but need to drive a little slower.....

Also no requirement to send in the 172, I asked to check, but they confirmed no need.

Thanks for advise here
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Jlc
post Tue, 31 May 2016 - 17:42
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Interesting - but the correct response....


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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