[NIP Wizard] 14 day NIP on the limit |
[NIP Wizard] 14 day NIP on the limit |
Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:21
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 27 May 2016 Member No.: 84,603 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - May 2016 Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 15 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A3 Liphook rd Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I am really questioning the 14 day period. the date on the NIP is the 18th however the envelope was dated 26/05/15 so I believe outside the period. Should I write a letter back rejecting under the time scales but also still fill in the S172? Also if I contest this and lose am I still able to do the course? NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 27 May 2016 14:21:10 +0000 |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:21
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:25
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
You can't reject a notice but you can point out to them their lack of compliance with the 14 day rule. The notice is deemed served two business days after posting if sent by first class post, although it only seems to have taken one day in your case. Are you sure the details on your V5C are correct?
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:27
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 282 Joined: 25 Aug 2015 Member No.: 79,044 |
The link in the NIP Wizard to RAC's legal advice gives you template letters to use. You can also read Gidden vs Chief Constable of Humberside
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html Peter posts on here as Peterguk hopefully will advise as well. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:28
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Normally, the notice is presumed delivered 2 working days after the date on the NIP - so the 20th, which would have been within the 14 day period.
It is your presumption to rebut - but with a date on the envelope exactly 2 weeks after the offence then there's no way the NIP could be delivered in time. As you note the s172 request must be satisfied. When you point this out to the force involved they may well agree and rescind or more likely that'll say that if you want to contest then the matter would have to go to court. (And a course would not be an option) On the face of it you appear to have a solid defence as you can rebut the presumption but it may go as far as a hearing. All assuming this is the 1st NIP. This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:29 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:33
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Normally, the notice is presumed delivered 2 working days after the date on the NIP - so the 20th, which would have been within the 14 day period. From the date of posting, not the date of the notice, surely? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:35
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 27 May 2016 Member No.: 84,603 |
Thanks all, yes I am sure this is the 1st NIP, I have not moved in the past 5 years and had the car for longer. So there is no case of delay due to this, and my V5c is correct.
I think it is worth filling in the form and electing the course. but with a cover letter and see were we go. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:38
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Normally, the notice is presumed delivered 2 working days after the date on the NIP - so the 20th, which would have been within the 14 day period. From the date of posting, not the date of the notice, surely? Well indeed, but presuming they remember to post it rather than 'sitting' on it for almost a week... -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:44
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 27 May 2016 Member No.: 84,603 |
It seems they did sit on it.
To be fair the paper looks like it was caught in a printer jam.. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 14:47
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You can always make a bemused phone call first. Tell them that the envelope is dated day 14 and therefore it can't possibly arrive within the statutory 14 days.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:23
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#10
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 27 May 2016 Member No.: 84,603 |
They have an email address on top of their NIP, so sent it off to that lets wait and see.
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:35
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
They have an email address on top of their NIP, so sent it off to that lets wait and see. Would have been better to have waited to inform them in case you've miscalculated Day 1 is the day after the alleged offence The notice is deemed delivered two business days after posting. With a weekend and bank holiday in the way that wouldn't be until next Tuesday and well outside the deadline |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 15:47
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
What deadline? It's outside the 14 days so contact is 'safe'.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 16:01
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
We've had OPs that miscalculated the 14 days
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 17:37
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#14
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 27 May 2016 Member No.: 84,603 |
True I could have said it was only delivered tomorrow or even Tuesday, but to be fair the incident happened on the 12th, and today I got the letter being the 27th.
So the 13th is the 1st day 14th is the 2nd and so on until I get to today being the 15th day! And would rather clear it up keeping to the clear facts, rather than bend the truth with regards of when the NIP arrived. Thanks all |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 18:59
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
rather than bend the truth with regards of when the NIP arrived. AKA perverting the course of justice/perjury. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 19:07
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#16
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,213 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
AIUI, the OP was being polite regarding his understanding of the corrected version of Jlc's point.
Most of us understand the difference between relying on the deeming provision when we know that the notice was in fact delivered sooner, and actually claiming that it was delivered then. The OP does not need to do so as the envelope is dated on day 14, and does not need to concern himself about what or where the line is. He may well have thought that relying on the deeming provision would involve an actual statement, and presumably did not want to accuse those who are trying to help of of suggesting what he would probably understand to be perjury. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 19:13
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Indeed, the date on the envelope is sufficient. The date isn't always there...
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 27 May 2016 - 21:01
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,389 Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Member No.: 38,126 |
It is also important that you do not neglect the 172 request, make sure you send that off in plenty of time.
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Tue, 31 May 2016 - 16:55
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#19
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 27 May 2016 Member No.: 84,603 |
Update for you all. So email back today apologising for any distress caused and case closed. I am off the hook, but need to drive a little slower.....
Also no requirement to send in the 172, I asked to check, but they confirmed no need. Thanks for advise here |
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Tue, 31 May 2016 - 17:42
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Interesting - but the correct response....
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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