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[NIP Wizard] Licence was lost in post - court action?
larvel
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:00
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2017
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 123 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Bury Road near to Kingston Road, Bury, UNITED KINGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - My logbook was in my old address and so it took longer for the speeding letter to arrive at my correct address. Once I read it, I admitted that it was me and sent off the payment and my licence straight away.

My licence was lost in the post, so I was issued with a reminder letter saying that my licence is required on 21/3/18. I emailed the helpline straight away and explained my situation and they told me I would need to send off for another licence, which I did straight away. As soon as it arrived I sent the licence off with the letter filled out correctly, and a short note explaining what had happened.

In the mean time I received a notice saying that the matter will be taken to court because I have failed to surrender my licence.

I have now been sent a single justice prcedure notice which includes a police report, information for the magistrate (pre filled out) and charge details.

It states that I have 21 days from the posting date to make my plea, which I can do online.

Meanwhile my licence has arrived at the ticketing office so they still have it now.

Basically I'm wanting to know is this now my only option - to go along with it and get charged by the courts? Or can I appeal?

It states on the letter:

Reason: Payment, but no licence

No licence was received in time & so the prosecution had to incur the cost of preparing the case for court.

Thank you in advance!


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 13:00:05 +0000
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post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:00
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Jlc
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:04
Post #2


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Easy option, use postal plea and mention the guidance:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


Best result would be 3 points, £100.

Alternatively, you could 'fight' that you complied with the CoFP (and prosecution is not possible) but will have to attend court with no guarantee of success.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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peterguk
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:07
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QUOTE (larvel @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 14:00) *
and sent off the payment and my licence straight away.


Was your payment also lost?


--------------------
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larvel
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:12
Post #4


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Joined: 21 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,618



QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 14:04) *
Easy option, use postal plea and mention the guidance:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


Best result would be 3 points, £100.

Alternatively, you could 'fight' that you complied with the CoFP (and prosecution is not possible) but will have to attend court with no guarantee of success.
Thanks, would I mention the guidance under the 'what you want the magistrage to consider when making a decision about your guilty plea' box? Or under 'tell us here if you object to the evidence in the police report and why'. There's a box for contesting the prosecutor's costs of £85 too.


QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 14:07) *
QUOTE (larvel @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 14:00) *
and sent off the payment and my licence straight away.


Was your payment also lost?
No the payment was received, however they have said on this letter that it will be refunded in due course. I am left wondering why they think I'd pay the fine but not send my licence off!
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The Rookie
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:41
Post #5


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Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
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Because many people don’t read the instructions and do exactly that.

This is a good case, if the court believe you sent the two in the same letter then they have to accept they received them, in which case you complied with the requirements and that is an absolute bar to prosecution, that THEY lost your licence shouldnt impact you. It’s whether the court believe you did sent them together.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 17:28
Post #6


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Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
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Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 14:41) *
This is a good case, if the court believe you sent the two in the same letter then they have to accept they received them, in which case you complied with the requirements and that is an absolute bar to prosecution, that THEY lost your licence shouldnt impact you. It’s whether the court believe you did sent them together.

For once the odds are in the OP's favour, it is intrinsically more likely that a motorist would send his licence and payment in the same envelope, rather than separately (why would anyone do such a thing, and pay the postage twice?).


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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The Rookie
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 18:50
Post #7


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Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



They don’t, but people do pay online and not send the licence, but presumably the Police ticketing office will have to confirm the payment was received by a postal method.

In addition why would someone who may have forgotten to send their licence not then send it but get a new one......

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 18:51


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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