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CST Law Letter Before Claim for PCNs
sl476
post Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 13:20
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Hi, I have received a "Letter before claim" from an organisation called CST Law concerning 3 unpaid PCN's (with a total of 420 pounds + 45 pounds of extra fine they have added).
I used work at a hospital whose parking lot was maintained by Civil Enforcement.
I have been ignoring their letters up until now.
I did pay for a parking permit every month when I was working at the hospital, but on most of the days, the staff parking lots were full, which forced me to park in general public parking lot. I did sometimes pay for the parking ticket, but sometimes I didn't, as I had at times been upset about the lack of parking spaces for the staff despite paying 30-40 pounds every month for the permit.
I have not had any similar experience in the past and your help would be much appreciated.

P.S.
The letter states, "We are instructed by Debt Recovery Plus Limited, as the agent of Civil Enforcement Limited, to commence legal action against you to recover the amount outstanding....".

This post has been edited by sl476: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 13:22
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post Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 13:20
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The Rookie
post Fri, 3 Jan 2020 - 08:39
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QUOTE (sl476 @ Fri, 3 Jan 2020 - 07:16) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 18:05) *
The driver of a car enters a contract when parking (if anyone does) but they are writing to you as the keeper of the car (they don’t know who was driving unless you’ve just told them).

The Protection of Freedoms Act allows them to hold the keeper liable for the divers charges IF they meet certain criteria, CEL never do so cannot hold the keeper liable.


I think by emailing this Jackie Mcguire person, I have implied that I was the keeper...so that boat's left already.


They knew you were the keeper already, it's the driver's ID that has to be protected.


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sl476
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 10:32
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 3 Jan 2020 - 08:39) *
QUOTE (sl476 @ Fri, 3 Jan 2020 - 07:16) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 18:05) *
The driver of a car enters a contract when parking (if anyone does) but they are writing to you as the keeper of the car (they don’t know who was driving unless you’ve just told them).

The Protection of Freedoms Act allows them to hold the keeper liable for the divers charges IF they meet certain criteria, CEL never do so cannot hold the keeper liable.


I think by emailing this Jackie Mcguire person, I have implied that I was the keeper...so that boat's left already.


They knew you were the keeper already, it's the driver's ID that has to be protected.


Okay..maybe I am just better off paying.
If I do end up in the court, will I be able to defend myself?
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Macapaca
post Sun, 5 Jan 2020 - 11:43
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Yes you will be able to defend yourself as you would be required to attend.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 10:12
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Yikes, you were told that revealing the Keepe ris of course OK, and from that you get tha tyou would be better off paying?!

Stop panicking

Did you reveal the DRIVERS identity? A simple YES or NO is required.
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sl476
post Mon, 20 Jan 2020 - 08:54
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 10:12) *
Yikes, you were told that revealing the Keepe ris of course OK, and from that you get tha tyou would be better off paying?!

Stop panicking

Did you reveal the DRIVERS identity? A simple YES or NO is required.


So if I just say no when I am asked were you the driver of the car, they won't be able to charge me?
However, I got these PCN's at the hospital premises and I don't have a second driver registered on my car, so wouldn't they be able to prove that I will have been the driver?
I haven't sent them the letter yet as i have been busy with work.
Is it wise for me to just wait and see what happens?
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Macapaca
post Mon, 20 Jan 2020 - 09:06
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I am insured to drive the car on my own insurance as are lots of people!

Just wait for them to contact you. Don't show them any anxiety to get this resolved otherwise they are more likely to pester you!
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 20 Jan 2020 - 09:52
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They can only claim from the KEEPER of a vehicle if they follow the rules in POFA2012 schedule 4
If they dont know the driver, and havent been told who it is, and havent followed POFA2012, then they can only claim from the driver.

You have to read other threads.
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sl476
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 18:06
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Hi,
I've just received this letter from CST Law, titled "Letter before claim - 7-day final notice".
They asked for 460 pounds initially but now on this letter, they are asking for 240 pounds as "they look to settle my account by return."
Will they take legal action or should I just pay this?
I am worried that if I actually do get summoned, more charges will incur.

Thank you for your guidance.
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Macapaca
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 18:47
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They are obviously not confident in winning if they have reduced their claim so much! If they claim from the Keeper then the maximum they can claim £100 so they are just trying this offer as a tactic to get you to pay up. If they take this to court then the most you will be liable for is the £100 plus court & legal costs at about £75 so still less than the £240 they are offering! Respond to the LBC and ask for all the documentation that is listed in the PAP.
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sl476
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 18:53
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QUOTE (Macapaca @ Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 18:47) *
They are obviously not confident in winning if they have reduced their claim so much! If they claim from the Keeper then the maximum they can claim £100 so they are just trying this offer as a tactic to get you to pay up. If they take this to court then the most you will be liable for is the £100 plus court & legal costs at about £75 so still less than the £240 they are offering! Respond to the LBC and ask for all the documentation that is listed in the PAP.


May I ask what PAP is?
I am also worried if I do contact them I will say something that they will use against me as I am quite useless when it comes to these things.
I may choose to just ignore them. As long as they cannot prove that I was the driver, I should be able to defend myself if I do get summoned to the court as per other people.

This post has been edited by sl476: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 19:00
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Macapaca
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 19:08
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Pre- Action Protocol. You mustn't ignore the LBC. If you respond as advised on here then you might not need to go to court at all. Look at the PAP and write simple letter requesting EVERYTHING listed in the PAP. Copy your draft on here for review before sending. Do NOT phone them!
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sl476
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 19:44
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QUOTE (Macapaca @ Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 19:08) *
Pre- Action Protocol. You mustn't ignore the LBC. If you respond as advised on here then you might not need to go to court at all. Look at the PAP and write simple letter requesting EVERYTHING listed in the PAP. Copy your draft on here for review before sending. Do NOT phone them!


I haven't received a PAP from them. Can I just ask them to provide me with everything listen in the pre-action protocol without specifying which ones I want?

Dear Sir/Madame,
I write to you regarding case number _____.
I have just received a letter before claim from you.
The driver of this vehicle used to work at the hospital with an official parking permit, paid monthly in order to park in hospital premises. Most of the time, there are no parking spots if the shift starts anytime after 9am, which forces us to park at the visitor’s carpark. You cannot possibly try and make money off healthcare staff who look after your friends, family, children and yourselves included.
Provide me with all the documents enlisted in the pre-action protocol.

Thank you.

This is what I've written on my email to them. I don't think I will send them a handwritten letter.
I haven't included anything that will point towards me as the driver.
Is this okay?
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Macapaca
post Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 23:41
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They won't send you the PAP. Look it up yourself and list all the documents that it requires. List everything so that they have to respond. They won't provide everything which puts you in a stronger position. They won't do it because it takes time and money.

Better to send a typed letter than send an email. Don't bother including the bit about the driver being a worker at the hospital etc. They aren't the slightest bit bothered. Yes they can try and make money off hospital staff. They have no scruples!
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sl476
post Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 14:43
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QUOTE (Macapaca @ Sat, 15 Feb 2020 - 23:41) *
They won't send you the PAP. Look it up yourself and list all the documents that it requires. List everything so that they have to respond. They won't provide everything which puts you in a stronger position. They won't do it because it takes time and money.

Better to send a typed letter than send an email. Don't bother including the bit about the driver being a worker at the hospital etc. They aren't the slightest bit bothered. Yes they can try and make money off hospital staff. They have no scruples!


I've done some research - can't seem to find the list of required documents at all on google...
So far, the list I've got is..

- Copies of the Penalty Charge Notices

- Copies of the parking signs in place

- Time stamped photos of the alleged violation of rules

- Time stamped photos of the vehicle in question

- Documents clearly identifying what aspects of the claim are being conceded and what are not

- Documents providing fuller explanation of your claim



This post has been edited by sl476: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 15:00
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Macapaca
post Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 21:09
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Google 'Pre-action protocol for debt claims'. Download and read the pdf file.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 11:07
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Parking charge. Not penalty charge.
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