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Lots of questions on a summons for speeding and processes, Speeding in Surrey LTI 20:20 Ultralyte 1000
Law Wannabe
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 15:24
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Hi guys

I am looking for the answers to some questions about the processes used in issuing a court summons for speeding. This isn't mine it is my sons but even though it was accepted he was speeding I question some of the content. Now we realise he could lose his license I had noticed some things that make me feel uneasy. Offence is A30 London Road Staines/Ashford August 2017 exceeding 60 in a 30. Can anyone answer some of the points or advise on whether there is a defense.

Statement by police officer was made on 26th January 2018 – 5 months after the offence (Signed on 30th January 2018)
Mg4d postal requisition dated 30th January 2018 (Summons) this is within the 6 months but when was it actually logged in court as the Summons was posted to old address on 8th May 2018 I would like
to know when the summons was actually requested as I believe that is the 6 month deadline. Also the case is end of July and it seems a very long time if it went into court in January.
Officer statement does not contain information about their position on A30 or the extent of timings
Only 2 photographs of evidence sent and one contains no information
There is no signage restricting 30mph on that stretch of the A30 - PO says distance of lampposts signifies speed - less than 200 yards. Now I was taught metric so therefore my son was too and his test
would have contained metric answers. I have asked a driving examiner and they discussed in the office and none of them use lampposts to determine speed when they teach or examine.
The driver was on the opposite carriageway and was possibly entering a 40mph where there are signs, however the lampposts are still the same distance as the 30mph and 50mph zones. My argument is
when the speed is changed in a road do they automatically move the lampposts to make sure drivers are aware smile.gif Tongue in cheek I know they don't
The A30 is variable speed in 3 parts but the lampposts are the same distance
The road is a dual carriageway and runs for 2.5 miles as a dual carriageway both sides but PO has not given his position
The police set up the laser to monitor traffic travelling towards staines the driver was travelling on opposite carriageway and concerned at the accuracy if the laser is swiftly moved 180 degrees to catch
their car
The laser was calibrated at 35 meters before operation set up at 11.42 attended staines road and set up monitoring the driver was photographed at 12:40:25 and the PO says at the conclusion of the
checks at 12:42 the DVD was unloaded and sealed, however the checks are done in addlestone when he returns from end of duty!! so what speed was he doing to pack up equipment and get to
addlestone in less than 2 minutes? It all looks total Bull to me and the driver may lose his license and his job.

Anyone with any help and advice I am most grateful

Thank you
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post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 15:24
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 21:49
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Shame Surrey weren't called out on their shoddy processes but a good result for your son regardless.

Thank you for coming back to update us.
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Law Wannabe
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 21:54
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My pleasure I also need to add the 3 Female magistrates did advise him that it deserved a disqualification but had read the statements and mine as his mother had asked them to consider 6 points as he already has 3 points and I felt it would act as a deterent
meaning he MUST not speed or jump lights for 3 years or he would be disqualified due to "Totting".

It seems they agreed wink.gif
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NewJudge
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 21:56
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Just out of interest, did you see any significance in the three magistrates being female?
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Law Wannabe
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 22:06
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Yes I did - I was happy to see them up there as I believe sometimes females are better at applying subjective and objective views than males. I'm not biased but I think our reasoning
(maybe due to being mothers) can be fairer or shall we say I think females apply equity appropriately.

Sorry if you are a male judge but I believe women can do the jobs at the top just as well angel7.gif biggrin.gif
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 22:09
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It is possible that the whole "Mum and Dad helping" played better with female magistrates. All we can say is they erred from sentencing guidelines in favour of the OP's son - which is unusual in a 30mph limit.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 22:42
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QUOTE (Law Wannabe @ Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 23:06) *
Sorry if you are a male judge but I believe women can do the jobs at the top just as well angel7.gif biggrin.gif

I find the idea of a magistrate being “at the top” quite amusing.


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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 23:03
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Perhaps he means top of the courtroom, height wise.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 23:03
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southpaw82
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 23:07
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 00:03) *
Perhaps he means top of the courtroom, height wise.

I think the OP is a she. Everyone knows the ushers run the courts.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Law Wannabe
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 00:02
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Yes I think it was the parent thing but it was all Mum and that's where I think the female takes in all circumstances and delivers a fair result. My son had had a dreadful 2017 losing his grandad and his father in law 6 days apart then his parents split after 30 years
and he had no real support and losing 3 main male figures did cause him much hardship.
Not excusing speeding but this time I know the threat of court did it's job
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cp8759
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 13:17
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 23:42) *
QUOTE (Law Wannabe @ Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 23:06) *
Sorry if you are a male judge but I believe women can do the jobs at the top just as well angel7.gif biggrin.gif

I find the idea of a magistrate being “at the top” quite amusing.

So do I, I feel someone should let Lady Hale know.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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jdh
post Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 10:32
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QUOTE (Law Wannabe @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 20:55) *
Hi Guys

I have spoken to the police officer and he denied putting anything in his statement about lampposts said the processing department must have but he signed it.


Is it just me that winces at this line? How much of his statement is actually his and how much is a computer generated standard blurb?
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cp8759
post Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 13:29
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QUOTE (jdh @ Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 11:32) *
QUOTE (Law Wannabe @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 20:55) *
Hi Guys

I have spoken to the police officer and he denied putting anything in his statement about lampposts said the processing department must have but he signed it.


Is it just me that winces at this line? How much of his statement is actually his and how much is a computer generated standard blurb?

Most police forces have pro-forma statements for speeding and the like. Even where they don't, officers will tend to keep a few templates around.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 13:39
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Indeed. In fact when I worked in supermarkets the police supplied pro forma MG11 statements for shoplifting. Much easier than sending out a police officer to write effectively identical statements.

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