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Westminster incomplete address
Lancaster
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 19:12
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Op recieved debt later from Marston chasing unpaid ticket Op was unaware of

Marston letter has Op name, town, county and post code but no street/road address
Op and 2 friends hire vehicles and using the Marston letter (client ref) and some guesswork based on prior hired vehicles thinks ticket relates to (Yellow box junct turning left when exit not clear) back some 16 months ago - 20/7/17.
Does not know who was driving on that event caught on camera and 3 pictures recorded do not help ID which of the 3 it was
Op did not receive any tcket (or word) from Westmin about this at the time or since - debt letter is the first communication - assumes hire firm passed Op name on
Does Op focus on debt letter and never having recieved original or have to answer anything else?
Thanks





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post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 19:12
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Neil B
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 19:18
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What does 'Op' mean?

Who is being pursued?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Lancaster
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 18:07
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 19:18) *
What does 'Op' mean?

Who is being pursued?


"Op' is person named on the debt agency letter which itself does not contain the correct address (missing the door number and street), so having only town, county and post code that covers 21 homes
Mr/Mrs ABC
Town
County
Post Code

Op has pieced together (with some guesswork) a version of what might be the story (retold above)The Debt letter gives a client (Westmnster) and a code ref which may be a vehicle hired by the Op 16months ago (but used by others when hired)
Op Never received PCNOp Never received any communicaiton prior to this Debt agency letter 16 months on from the incident

Does Op respond to debt letter/Westmin or wait this out?


Op is not reg keeper of the vehicle bit may have been person named on hire contract

This post has been edited by Lancaster: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 18:11
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Incandescent
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 18:23
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The PCN would first be issued to the hire company, who can then in law, submit reps that they are a hire company therefore not liable, (even though they are the registered keeper). For their reps to be accepted, they must supply the name and address of the hiring party. This party are then liable for the PCN, and it is re-issued to them.
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Neil B
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 18:24
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Ok, last try.

Are you Op?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Lancaster
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 18:30
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 18:24) *
Ok, last try.

Are you Op?


Sorry NOIt is a friend, close friend who has asked for my thoughts on his liabilityyesterday he told me about a ltter he receivedi asked for a copy and posted this for him -swears he has no prior comms on it and i beleive him


This post has been edited by Lancaster: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 18:31
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hcandersen
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 20:03
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Marston letter has Op name, town, county and post code but no street/road address


IMO, not possible.

Post code is a sorting tool. It narrows delivery to possbly 30-40 addresses. It is not possible to deliver a letter only on a post code.

You'll need to explain further.

To test my point, put the post code into this and see what you get:

https://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 20:04
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Lancaster
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 22:38
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Hcandersen NeilBI appreciate you are here helping me for freeI am not here lying to you or wasting your time - i ws best man for this person so know he is telling me the true storyI have reedited the letter to reveal the 4 lines of address

Mr xxxWaltham Cross (Town)
Herts (County)
Post code is next, final line but i'd rather not reveal if you can trust me?

My friend received the letter from postman.
Maybe postman knew his name and took a guess from one of the 21 addresses sharing the post code -i know there are 21 because friend sent me a list of the homes sharing same post code- happy to share by PM if that helps

So based on FACt that IT DID reach him (albeit incompletely addressed) is it possible to get some help with what he should do next?
(He loaded the Westmin ref on letter at Westmin portal and tested 4 hire vehicles regs he had used in last 2 years - 1 of them was a "hit' thus showing a YBJ picture and claim dated 21/7/2017 - you can see his hand writing on letter 21/7/2017 - that is what he worked out.

He has heard nothing ever from Westmin about the penalty ticket - maybe because it was a hire vehicle and maybe because Westmin used same same incomplete address before supplying it to Debt agency - i dont know how that came to be.

Here is the ammended edit to letter to show exactly what is in address



This post has been edited by Lancaster: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 22:40
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Neil B
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 00:26
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I am not in any way doubting you or your friend but you posted in such a way as to appear to be 'playing games',
i.e. "the Op", as others have done, thinking they need to hide liability. Had you explained this was for a friend
we could have got on with it.
But, as you are posting on behalf of a friend, some reassurance they will SEE and understand our responses rather
than you interpreting them and relating them to him/her.

This appears, at face value, to be a case of the hire co. supplying an incomplete address to WMCC and that should be your
first point of enquiry.
Let's clarify something first: If your friend was the person signing the hire agreement then THEY are legally liable,
irrespective of who was driving.

NO, they cannot ignore it; the next stage will add £235 to the debt! But I can't see a deadline on that notice?

First ports of call>

-- TEC (the Court) -- 0300 123 1059. What address was the debt registered at?
-- Westminster -- What address were they given by the hire co. (assuming liability was transferred to your friend, the hirer)

Then we can get going.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Lancaster
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 10:28
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 00:26) *
I am not in any way doubting you or your friend but you posted in such a way as to appear to be 'playing games',
i.e. "the Op", as others have done, thinking they need to hide liability. Had you explained this was for a friend
we could have got on with it.
But, as you are posting on behalf of a friend, some reassurance they will SEE and understand our responses rather
than you interpreting them and relating them to him/her.

This appears, at face value, to be a case of the hire co. supplying an incomplete address to WMCC and that should be your
first point of enquiry.
Let's clarify something first: If your friend was the person signing the hire agreement then THEY are legally liable,
irrespective of who was driving.

NO, they cannot ignore it; the next stage will add £235 to the debt! But I can't see a deadline on that notice?

First ports of call>

-- TEC (the Court) -- 0300 123 1059. What address was the debt registered at?
-- Westminster -- What address were they given by the hire co. (assuming liability was transferred to your friend, the hirer)

Then we can get going.


Sorry i used 'op' as in previous readings i have seen pepipoo encourage not diclosing who the driver was - my misunderstanding on how to use that
as you say hirer is responsible so driver not an important pointActions
i will have him check with hire firm what info they held/ passed over
TEC the court - when we call what ref do we use - the Westminster one?

Thanks
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Neil B
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 10:50
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QUOTE (Lancaster @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 10:28) *
TEC the court - when we call what ref do we use - the Westminster one?

Yes, as that's probably the PCN number.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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DancingDad
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:01
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TEC will want the PCN number.
If not got that, contact Westminster first
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ohnoes
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:01
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QUOTE (Lancaster @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 10:28) *
Sorry i used 'op' as in previous readings i have seen pepipoo encourage not diclosing who the driver was

Thanks


That only applies in the case of a private parking ticket issued on private land under contract law, not a council or police ticket.

This post has been edited by ohnoes: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:01


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Overall success rate getting tickets overturned: 75%
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Lancaster
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:17
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QUOTE (ohnoes @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:01) *
QUOTE (Lancaster @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 10:28) *
Sorry i used 'op' as in previous readings i have seen pepipoo encourage not diclosing who the driver was

Thanks


That only applies in the case of a private parking ticket issued on private land under contract law, not a council or police ticket.


Ah makes sense as most of my contact here was PPC - old age played a part mind
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Lancaster
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:41
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Checked with TEC - they have the same non address
TEC suggested completing a Stat Dec form and asking the council to bring claim back to original?!


Checked with Westmin - the PCN is not recognised
Checking with hire firm (asked friend to do that)


This post has been edited by Lancaster: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:54
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Neil B
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 14:22
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QUOTE (Lancaster @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:41) *
Checked with Westmin - the PCN is not recognised

That's not possible if TEC have it registered (by WM) as a debt.
QUOTE (Lancaster @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:41) *
TEC suggested completing a Stat Dec form and asking the council to bring claim back to original?!

It's forms and yes, that's where we're leading but he needs the relevant facts first.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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peterguk
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 14:24
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QUOTE (Lancaster @ Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 22:38) *
maybe because it was a hire vehicle

Has your friend checked with hire company? Did they transfer liability?


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Neil B
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 14:46
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 14:22) *
QUOTE (Lancaster @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:41) *
Checked with Westmin - the PCN is not recognised

That's not possible if TEC have it registered (by WM) as a debt.

It will be WE followed by 8 digits.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Lancaster
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 17:24
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 14:24) *
QUOTE (Lancaster @ Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 22:38) *
maybe because it was a hire vehicle

Has your friend checked with hire company? Did they transfer liability?



Peter - still awaitng cresponse from friend about what hire firm passed over
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peterguk
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 17:29
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QUOTE (Lancaster @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 17:24) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 14:24) *
QUOTE (Lancaster @ Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 22:38) *
maybe because it was a hire vehicle

Has your friend checked with hire company? Did they transfer liability?



Peter - still awaitng cresponse from friend about what hire firm passed over


They can only formally transfer liability or not. Nothing in between.


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