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2 tickets .... what is the law
alanccooper
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 08:08
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I deal in cars, car 1 left with the valetter and i recieved a ticket for it being on double yellows....car 2 sold to a gent who was caught on anpr entering a private car park.

I appealed car 1, and stated it was in the hands of the valetters who parked it incorrectly and they are liable.....to be told, no they are not, i, as the reg keeper, am liable.......car 2, states the driver of the vehicle is liable...

Are they both right or both wrong? Which is it? Who is liable?

This post has been edited by alanccooper: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 08:08
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post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 08:08
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Jlc
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 08:11
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Assuming both tickets are private (DYL sounds like council?).

The vast majority of private tickets are pursued under contract law - the driver always forms the alleged contract.

However, under certain conditions the keeper (presumed to be the registered keeper) can be liable for the driver’s unpaid parking charge (Protection of Freedoms Act).

For specific help then post up redacted scans of the charges - one per thread.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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alanccooper
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 08:28
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yes ticket 1 is county council, ticket 2 is private company.
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Jlc
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 08:57
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QUOTE (alanccooper @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 08:28) *
yes ticket 1 is county council, ticket 2 is private company.

Post the private details here - depends on who it is and the timings but some companies do only pursue drivers (but write to keepers), so there can be an easy appeal.

Post the council one in the decrim forum here. (Where liability is different)


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 09:02
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Bad news on car 1, yes you the owner is liable, you can ask or even sue for the money back from the valeters, but that doesn’t change that. But post in the council forum to look for other issues.

For the private charge you can just name the valeters and provide a serviceable address and the parking company should move onto them. You were not the keeper at the time of the parking event. Let them sort out their own mess.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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alanccooper
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 09:43
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thanks all, rookie yes, the ticket 2 was a car id alrerady sold, thats for someone else to deal with now, it was the fact the council rejected my represenatations and said its down to the keeper, but the other ticket ticket 2 said driver.....but onloy ticket 1 is down to me, so, bearing that in mind, also, i got 2 tickets 4 years ago, on private land, and the driver even wrote me a letter stating it was down to him becuase i had a ticket from them back then, but they have rejected that and said its down to the owner to pay......are they simply choosing the opposite of what i give i wonder? Hence me checking which is law.
So we have 1 ticket from country council parked on DYL that are stating the keeper is at fault.....
And 2 tickets from 4 years ago on private land, stating the keeper is at fault (even though ive given them evidence of the driver admitting fault) BUT this is then contrary to `ticket2` who is saying its down to the driver even though also private ticket private land !!!
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Jlc
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 10:24
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QUOTE (alanccooper @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 09:43) *
Hence me checking which is law.

This is the issue with different types of tickets - it confuses the general public.

Council tickets are enforceable with strict procedures and rules.

Private tickets are generally contract (ignoring byelaws and trespass for simplicity). As I said, the driver always forms the alleged contract and they can only pursue the keeper under specific conditions (and not all comply). But they can only write to the keeper and hope they give up the driver details (which many do in naivety sometimes - thinking parking companies are 'reasonable', they're not as they only get paid one way).

To confuse matters further there are 2 trade associations and 2 different appeal bodies - but the Government is working on that...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 10:26


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 10:50
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So if you were not the owner of car 2 then how did you get the PCN?

If you don't contact them then they will continue against you. Again you tell them the name of the keeper. I presume you have attempted to update the V5 document?
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Dave65
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 11:07
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ticket 2, if the V5 hasn`t been updated yet, you should have a sales receipt with their details on and date.
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alanccooper
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 17:46
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 10:50) *
So if you were not the owner of car 2 then how did you get the PCN?

If you don't contact them then they will continue against you. Again you tell them the name of the keeper. I presume you have attempted to update the V5 document?


Because their database was clearly not updated on the day they sent the letter
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mickR
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 18:12
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QUOTE (alanccooper @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 17:46) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 10:50) *
So if you were not the owner of car 2 then how did you get the PCN?

If you don't contact them then they will continue against you. Again you tell them the name of the keeper. I presume you have attempted to update the V5 document?


Because their database was clearly not updated on the day they sent the letter


has it been now?? as a trader I'm surprised you didn't check this yourself to be honest.
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ostell
post Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 19:29
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OK write back to them and tell them that you are no ,longer the keeper of the car, it was sold on xxxx, here's the documents and the current keeper is xxxxxxxx. You do not expect hear from them again
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 23 Jan 2022 - 10:23
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Doing it online is the absolute best way to get the v5 sorted.
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alanccooper
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 08:04
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QUOTE (mickR @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 18:12) *
QUOTE (alanccooper @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 17:46) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 22 Jan 2022 - 10:50) *
So if you were not the owner of car 2 then how did you get the PCN?

If you don't contact them then they will continue against you. Again you tell them the name of the keeper. I presume you have attempted to update the V5 document?


Because their database was clearly not updated on the day they sent the letter


has it been now?? as a trader I'm surprised you didn't check this yourself to be honest.


Sorry is this my mrs typing? Im not following you at all? Alot of databases are out of date, go mot or tax your car then say use vehicle smart and it will be untaxed etc for a while after, also dvla are months behind in their paperwork, hence they have stopped all vans checking for out of date tax on cars for the last 2 years, we really dont need you on here giving people unhelpful advice, i know exactly what i need to do, and a company sending me a letter is not unusual, i have the keeprs details, and i send the letter on.....its as simple as that, what isnt simple is understanding who is liable, thats why i turned to the clever people on here, of which you do not belong. This is not facebook, please dont try to turn it into it Karen.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 09:27
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Mick is a damned clever person, I suggest you apologise for going off there.

For example, you're so clever you managed to miss the council tickets section...
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DWMB2
post Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 09:33
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You're unlikely to get many of the "clever people" on here queuing up to help you, if that's the attitude you take to a comment you don't like. The first part of Mick's question was a worthwhile one (I.e have the keeper details been updated now?), in order to confirm that the vehicle is not still registered to you, due to an admin error somewhere in the system, or a lost letter, if you did it by post.

This post has been edited by DWMB2: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 - 09:33


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alanccooper
post Tue, 25 Jan 2022 - 08:11
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even paedophiles have friends....always remember that one.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 25 Jan 2022 - 09:16
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Awesome response there
I'm out. I imagine I won't be the only one.
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