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PCN without PHOTO, I've received a PCN but there is no photo proof
Daniel_driver01
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 18:14
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Hello,

I would like to say hello to all helpful people here. I'm so glad I've found this forum.
This is my first post here so apologise if I write something wrong.

My problem is that I've received the PCN letter from Transport for London that I was parking on a red route.
The truth is that I was parking there but
1. there was a loading bay
2. I displayed the LOADING badge on the windscreen
3. The road sign says the no stoping 7am-7pm except loading and I was spotted between 11:07 to 11:14 (7 minutes)


What is most important there is no evidence that I was parking there.
There is NO PHOTO of my car just the road sign with the restrictions.

Spoke to the traffic warden waiting by my car and he accused me that I went for shopping but I left before he produced the ticket.
I was doing the delivery at that time and I have the Invoice as a proof of delivery but on my way back I went quickly to Sainsbury to buy some painkillers.

Here is what is stated in the letter:
This PCN is served by post because a civil enforcement officer (number....)
observed the vehicle identified above from 11:07 to 11:14 and had begun to prepare
a penalty charge notice for service but the vehicle concerned was driven away from the place in which it was stationary
before the civil enforcement officer had finished preparing the penalty charge notice or had served it by fixing it to the vehicle
or giving it to the person appearing to be in charge of the vehicle.


what are my options now?

Thank you so much for help.
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post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 18:14
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 19:35
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& minutes observation and no photos, an adjudicator might find that a bit strange. but 7 minutes without ant sign of loading, and an admission that at least a part of that shopping. they might also find no exemption applied.

What's a loading badge?
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Daniel_driver01
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 20:15
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 20:35) *
& minutes observation and no photos, an adjudicator might find that a bit strange. but 7 minutes without ant sign of loading, and an admission that at least a part of that shopping. they might also find no exemption applied.

What's a loading badge?


Thank you for reply.
I was deliver 50 bottles of juice to the restaurant about 2 minutes walk then I spent there few minutes and come back to the car.
Saying badge I meant LOADING sign printed in black on white A4 paper and displayed on the dashboard.
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cp8759
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 20:18
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What were you doing for the "few minutes" you were there?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Daniel_driver01
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:17
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:18) *
What were you doing for the "few minutes" you were there?


No I wasn't there I was in that restaurant where I was deliver the juices.
But I left the LOADING sign on the dashboard
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cp8759
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:24
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QUOTE (Daniel_driver01 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 22:17) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:18) *
What were you doing for the "few minutes" you were there?


No I wasn't there I was in that restaurant where I was deliver the juices.
But I left the LOADING sign on the dashboard

Let me rephrase, what were you doing for the "few minutes" you were in the restaurant?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Daniel_driver01
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:29
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 22:24) *
QUOTE (Daniel_driver01 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 22:17) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:18) *
What were you doing for the "few minutes" you were there?


No I wasn't there I was in that restaurant where I was deliver the juices.
But I left the LOADING sign on the dashboard

Let me rephrase, what were you doing for the "few minutes" you were in the restaurant?


Yes, it's my Client where I had to deliver 50 bottles of juices.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:42
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OP, the ‘Loading’ sign has no legal effect.

You wish to claim the exemption of loading, then you need to show that you were loading for the whole time you were stationary.

You have admitted you were not, but instead took diversions - at least one and possibly two.

A further problem you’ll have is establishing your credibility in front of an adjudicator - IMO, you would lose any appeal heard on the paper- if there is credible evidence against you that you drove away.

So, park the loading notice and focus on why the CEO claimed you drove away.
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DastardlyDick
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:56
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Photos are not mandatory, but you were given 7 minutes observation and you admit to going to Sainsbury's to buy some painkillers, which is shopping,
not loading - in my experience it takes longer than 7 minutes to go into Sainsbury's (or any other Supermarket) find the pharmacy bit, get your pills and pay, but maybe you got lucky or you're quicker than me round the shops! Your statement that there's "no evidence" is wrong - the CEO has seen your vehicle in the loading box and put the Reg. No. into his computer, and then waited 7 minutes to see if any loading is actually going on before issuing a PCN having seen no loading, both these times will have been recorded. The minimum observation time is 5 minutes. It is now up to you to prove that you were loading.
OP, this is how your story reads to me:-
At (time) I parked in a loading box to deliver 50 bottles of juice to a restaurant and placed a note saying "Loading" in my windscreen area. I had completed my delivery, and on the way back to my vehicle, I called in to a branch of Sainsbury's to buy some painkillers. When I got back to my car, I found a CEO standing next to it who told me that I was parked in contravention, and that a PCN had been issued. I then drove off before the CEO could either attach the PCN to my car or hand it to me.
Does that fit in with what actually happened? If not, what's different?
IMO, you're bang to rights on the contravention and would be best advised to pay up while the discount is still available, but post up the PCN (both sides) with personal details and Reg. No. obscured/redacted and a Google Street View reference for the location, so we can check for errors.

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:06
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cp8759
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 16:25
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I agree with everything DastardlyDick has said. Post the PCN so we can look for any technical grounds of appeal.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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