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[NIP Wizard] A stupid mistake. 53 coming into a 30. Will I be banned?
idiot2019
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:12
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2019
Date of the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 16 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Blind Lane - Chester-Le-Street
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Company Car
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Coming out of 60 zone and overtaking a slow moving vehicle (In crawler lane) I held my speed to overtake. Police officer was stood further up, at the side of the road, around the corner, and as i went over the 30mph limit sign i was slowing down and pulling across into lane 1 and noticed the officer. He then pulled me into the side of the road and issued ticket at 53mph.

He obvioulsy had his speed gun focused on the speed limit change.

It is common for people to use the overtaking lane and 30mph sign is placed approx 100m before the end of the lane merge.

Day was sunny sunday at 1pm.

I need my driving license for my job, and im also just about to move house, and become a father, meaning my wife will be out of work and also not earning from January onwards.

I also feel like a complete idiot, as i drive approx 25-30k miles a year with work and i am normally so carfull as i know my livlihood depends on my ability to drive.


Just received a letter through the post saying i will be taken to court sad.gif

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:12:20 +0000

This post has been edited by idiot2019: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:36
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post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:12
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The Rookie
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:40
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Nothing you say suggests a defence, however its worth looking at whether the 30 signs are correctly placed, its not unusual for them to be placed incorrectly.

53/30 is unlikely to be a ban, though 6 points is likely.

EDIT: here I presume?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.8661463,-...3312!8i6656

Signs are within a system of street lighting and they must match to where the traffic regulation order says the 30 limit starts, that order will be with the local council highways dep't.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:44


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Logician
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:40
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From what you write, there seems no obvious defence. For over 51 in a 30 limit, the guideline is disqualification of 7 to 56 days, or 6 points. Given that you were only just over 51, any disqualification should be not much more than 7 days, but 6 points is the most likely outcome, in my view. The fine, after a guilty plea, will be equivalent to a week's net income, plus a surcharge of 10% (Min £32) and £85 costs.


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idiot2019
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:00
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:40) *
Nothing you say suggests a defence, however its worth looking at whether the 30 signs are correctly placed, its not unusual for them to be placed incorrectly.

53/30 is unlikely to be a ban, though 6 points is likely.

EDIT: here I presume?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.8661463,-...3312!8i6656

Signs are within a system of street lighting and they must match to where the traffic regulation order says the 30 limit starts, that order will be with the local council highways dep't.


Yeah, I hold my hands up really, there was no true excuse.

Yes that exact spot! Im really just concerned that if i lose my license for an extended period, ill lose my job, which would mean also losing my house, and probably any chance i have of being able to get a similarly payed position elsewhere. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:40) *
From what you write, there seems no obvious defence. For over 51 in a 30 limit, the guideline is disqualification of 7 to 56 days, or 6 points. Given that you were only just over 51, any disqualification should be not much more than 7 days, but 6 points is the most likely outcome, in my view. The fine, after a guilty plea, will be equivalent to a week's net income, plus a surcharge of 10% (Min £32) and £85 costs.


Hopefully it will be the 6 points, although if i was banned for 7 days, i could just take holiday. Would i still get 6 points on top of that ban?

Thanks for your reply!


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BaggieBoy
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:04
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It's points or a ban, not both.
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Logician
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:12
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Either a ban or points, never both.


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The Rookie
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:19
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You need to get onto the highways department for a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order that sets the limit BEFORE the 30 limit (looks like it's a 50), and any TRO for the 30 limit (There may not be one if its set by the presence of street lighting only) to see where either the previous limit ends or the 30 starts. Then compare to the placing of the signs.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 11:21


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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idiot2019
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 14:19
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 12:19) *
You need to get onto the highways department for a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order that sets the limit BEFORE the 30 limit (looks like it's a 50), and any TRO for the 30 limit (There may not be one if its set by the presence of street lighting only) to see where either the previous limit ends or the 30 starts. Then compare to the placing of the signs.


Its a National (60mph) limit before the 30...

Thanks, ill have a look into that.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 15:10
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I can't see an NSL limit before that, but that doesn't change anything legally.

It appears the roundabout is a 40
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.865083,-1...3312!8i6656

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 15:13


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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d123
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 19:24
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 16:10) *
I can't see an NSL limit before that, but that doesn't change anything legally.

It appears the roundabout is a 40
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.865083,-1...3312!8i6656


I know that road, I’m pretty sure it is 40 for the stretch between the roundabout and the 30 sign.
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idiot2019
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 13:25
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QUOTE (d123 @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 20:24) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 16:10) *
I can't see an NSL limit before that, but that doesn't change anything legally.

It appears the roundabout is a 40
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.865083,-1...3312!8i6656


I know that road, I’m pretty sure it is 40 for the stretch between the roundabout and the 30 sign.


Yes it is a 40mph road, my apologies.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 15:00
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Which may give you a problem, because even if the signs are in the wrong place you were still exceeding the 40 limit by some margin. But get the TRO's and lets find out.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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