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[NIP Wizard] Two NIPs for the same (alleged) offence
Boneshaker
post Wed, 14 Oct 2015 - 22:53
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - September 2015
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A30 Launceston By Pass, junction with Trebursey, Cornwall
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - RK
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - My wife noticed the Police "manned camera" van first, in the scrub, at the side of the road, hidden behind the crash barriers. She shouted the alarm, but it was too late.

The strange thing is, if they'd sent me one NIP I would have rolled over - £100 & 3 points - occupational hazard, as it were.

Instead they've sent me two nearly identical NIPs (virtually a matching pair). The date, place & time (to the minute) are identical. Only the reference numbers are different, well, that & the speed - one says 84, the other 86.

As I am not planning to be punished twice for this (alleged) offence, I have spoken to a specialist motoring solicitor today. He's never heard of anything like it & is going to ask a barrister (barista?) mate of his.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience...

Cheers!


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:53:37 +0000
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post Wed, 14 Oct 2015 - 22:53
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southpaw82
post Wed, 14 Oct 2015 - 23:16
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Phone the camera unit and ask why? They'll probably cancel one. Surprised your expensive solicitor didn't do this.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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peterguk
post Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 00:32
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QUOTE (Boneshaker @ Wed, 14 Oct 2015 - 23:53) *
I have spoken to a specialist motoring solicitor today. He's never heard of anything like it & is going to ask a barrister (barista?) mate of his.


A practising coffee maker? Cool! biggrin.gif

We've seen several instances of duplicate NIPs. No big deal, as suggested, phone the camera unit.


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Jlc
post Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 06:11
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Indeed, we've seen it a few times. Does not provide any defence - they'll cancel one when queried.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 06:32
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Is he a motoring specialist or just claim to be, I doubt the claim as this is an easy an issue to resolve as any you will ever come across!

The operator took two different readings, usually only one NIP would be sent out, in this case for some reason it's been processed twice, no big issue, a simple phone call or a letter in with the two NIPs returned together would have sorted it.

Hope you aren't paying more for the coffee.....


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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southpaw82
post Thu, 15 Oct 2015 - 10:00
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I'm pretty sure I could write a letter to the police for £400 + VAT and take advice from my friend for £600 + VAT too!


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Boneshaker
post Mon, 16 Nov 2015 - 23:49
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Thanks for all your help.

My solicitor phoned me, his espresso maker chum said that

1. If I wanted to fight it I could, but it's a risky strategy because...

(a) Although having two speeds recorded casts doubt in the veracity of either, if it is simply a clerical error & they have clear evidence of one offence, I'm stuffed.
(b) If I lost it would be very expensive - £2K+ in legal fees & add on court fees to the fines, etc
© I also happen to be guilty

2. He suggested that the far more sensible & grown-up option was to fill in both the NIPs & send them with a covering letter explaining the situation (as you all suggested) & ask for the photographic evidence for both alleged offences to clear up the "confusion" getting 2 NIPs had caused.

I took option 2. I got a reply by return. With the photos, a grovelling apology from the manager of the "camera safety unit" & cancelling the lower speeding charge but upholding the 2nd (86mph on A-road dual carriageway). In the same post came an offer to do a speed awareness course, which I have arranged about 2 miles down the road, on my day off. I think justice has been served & I admit to feeling a bit of a jammy...dodger (missing the 3 points)

Thanks for all your advice - by the way, the bill for my legal advice was exactly the same as it is from you guys...£0.00

There are some good guys in the legal profession...well maybe just one or two! biggrin.gif

Cheers!
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Nov 2015 - 07:57
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You'll note that suggestion 2 is what we advised, glad it didn't cost you any more!

A simple 'bemused' phone call would be even easier and you know its sorted instantly.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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