Another Liverpool John Lennon Airport PCN Options

[Chipper64]

Hi,

My wife has recieved a series of letter, following the issue of a PCN by VCS. The issue is now being dealt with by BW legal. The car is a lease car and it was photographed at the airport dropping someone off. BW Legal have now sent a 'Fianl Notice' letter. Until this point in time, i've received a great deal of help/info off a guy on the facebook page for fighting private invoices, however, he has suggested that you guys will be better placed to help.

Please could you provide any guidnace on how i should now deal with this letter off BW Legal?

btw, I have posted previously about another on-going case with another PPC for a PCN recieved at The Adelhi hotel in Liverpool. Again, this one is still On-going.

I can post copies of any docs necessary to help with any background info that may be needed.

Thanks for any help/info you may be able to provide.

Chipper64

ps
The car is a lease car and during this process, VCS wrote to the lease co and then said that the lease co had provided my wife's name as being that of the driver. We responded to the to them them we too would ask the lease co for proof of how they could suggest such a case.

This post has been edited by Chipper64: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 19:28

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[makara]

Post the PCN, both sides - editing out personal details and PCN number and Vehicle reg.

[freddy1]

there are 2 or 3 more active cases with vcs/bw at this location of the first pages of this forum , read and digest

[kommando]

Unless the lease car company has some one in the car eaves dropping they do not know who the driver is, so they have named the keeper and VCS do not know who the driver is, keep it that way. Edit your posts and only refer to the driver or the keeper.

[ostell]

Is the Notice to Keeper/hirer that you received in your own name or simply a copy with the lease company name on it? The lease company cannot name anyone as the driver as they simply cannot know, they can only name the hirer.

If the NTK is in the hirer's name did it arrive with additional documents such as copies of portions of the hire agreement and a copy of the original NTK to the lease company? Probably not. If that is the case then VCS have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA, namely paragraph 14 (2) (a) and therefroe there can be no keeper liability.

There can be no keeper liability anyway as the land is subject to byelaws and therefore POFA does not apply.

A letter to them from the hirer/keeper pointing out that they have failed the requirements of POFA to hold the hirer liable.

[Chipper64]

Is the Notice to Keeper/hirer that you received in your own name or simply a copy with the lease company name on it? The lease company cannot name anyone as the driver as they simply cannot know, they can only name the hirer.

If the NTK is in the hirer's name did it arrive with additional documents such as copies of portions of the hire agreement and a copy of the original NTK to the lease company? Probably not. If that is the case then VCS have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA, namely paragraph 14 (2) (a) and therefroe there can be no keeper liability.

There can be no keeper liability anyway as the land is subject to byelaws and therefore POFA does not apply.

A letter to them from the hirer/keeper pointing out that they have failed the requirements of POFA to hold the hirer liable.

That's to everyone for the help/advice.

I'm currently at work so will only be able to get the documents requested redacted and posted later this week.

[Chipper64]

Here's side 1 of the original PCN. Side 2 to follow

This post has been edited by Chipper64: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 19:20

[cabbyman]

Use TinyPic to host the pics and copy and paste the [IMG] tags to this thread.

[Chipper64]

Please let me know if this does/doesn't work.

This post has been edited by Chipper64: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 19:38

[freddy1]

I think you have been advised to look at the other vcs/jla/BW case , I made a post at #285 , http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...6961&st=280

[cabbyman]

Did they send copies of the hire documents as required under PoFA?

It should be a notice to hirer, not notice to driver.

Two additional defence points for you on top of others that are currently being addressed in Webster's thread; go and have a read.

[freddy1]

we seem to be going down the lines of trespass rather than a "parking charge" (as per pics on other thread , I think POFa etc etc has gone out of the window , its now a solisitor claiming for tresspass for a company that pays to look after property for another

hints of proserve http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/20...ic-victory.html

[Chipper64]

Here's side 1 of the original PCN. Side 2 to follow

As you will see, VCS had to write to the leasing company for contact details. They then suggest that the leasing company has named an individual as the driver. This information was never communicated to the leasing company by anyone so VCS are making assumptions (which could prove interesting).

First of all, i apologise for the length of this post but it has gone on and there has been some toing and froing with letters.However, i feel this is also a unique case due to the involvement of the leasing company. As you will see, VCS have a way of trying to trap people into naming the driver (which we still have not done!!, as tempting as it may of been ))

Chronologically, here's how things have gone so far:

11/07/17 PCN Notice to Driver issued

25/08 - We respond with a challenge to land ownership rights, that signs fail (in accordance with Beavis case) and that VCS do not own the car park. Also informing them that the council has refused planning permission for signs. We state that "there will be no admission as to who was driving the car" and that VCS must rely on pofa 2012 and offer a POPLA code or cancel the charge. We also sent another letter point out that the airports opinions on by-laws were irrelevant, letting them know that we know they've been informed of this, therefore have no reasonable cause to approach the DVLA and they are breaching the data protection act. We insist they stop using our data and prohibit its passing to a 3rd party.

01/09 We receive an invoice from the leasing company for processing the PCN.

25/09 VCS are unable to accept our appeal. The signs at LJL are clear stating 'No stopping' The next part is interesting as they are inferring we have named the driver "...in your appeal, you have confirmed you stopped your vehicle...." Nobody has ever admitted or named the driver, the only info they have is the keeper. They also suggest the vehicle was stopped to 'collect' a passenger. This is not the case!! They then suggest the last set of bylaws relate to the old airport and are now regarded as obsolete by the airport company. The y then say we cannot demand them to cease processing information because we fail to meet the requirements for a Section 10 Notice.

29/09 Our response is that nowhere did we identify the driver and that there was no keeper liability as the notice was not served in time. We also suggest further correspondence is causing stress and harassment.

05/10 VCS will not respond to or acknowledge further appeals or challenges but as a gesture of goodwill re-offer the discounted charge.

10/10 We respond letting VCS know our position remains unchanged.

20/10 VCS Say the leasing company 'named the sole driver' of the vehicle and they have not cited POFA 2012. Reiterating that the driver had been named. No further appeals or challenges will not be acknowledged or responded to. Then options of how the charge can be paid or how to appeal to IAS

24/10 We respond saying our position remains the same. We also ask for evidence that the leasing company have named the driver.

06/12 VCS issue Notice of Intended Court Proceedings following our unsuccessful appeal.

05/01 BW Legal send 1st correspondence saying full charge plus clients initial legal costs are now owed.

ALSO 05/01 VCS inform us that BW Legal will be getting involved in the process.

05/02 BW Legal issue FINAL NOTICE

As always, i greatly respect and appreciate the help and advice given on this page and i look forward to taking on VCS with the support of you guys. If anyone needs any points clarifying or further information, please do not hesitate to let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Chipper64.

Did they send copies of the hire documents as required under PoFA?

It should be a notice to hirer, not notice to driver.

Two additional defence points for you on top of others that are currently being addressed in Webster's thread; go and have a read.

No documents from them off the hire car company. We recieved an invoice from he hire company for admin costs in processing the VCS ticket.

This post has been edited by Chipper64: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 20:49

[cabbyman]

When you beat VCS, you will be able to reclaim the admin charge from the hire company, subject to provisions in the hire agreement.

[freddy1]

vcs are not bpa so will not issue popla code , bpa RENT the "fishing rights" to the land @ £50,000 per year

and the letter that was accidentally sent out by JLA

[nosferatu1001]

Its not really unique

First off, check your Lease agreemene.t Does it allow them to charge for PRIVATE parking notices, or just fines and penalties?

[Chipper64]

Its not really unique

First off, check your Lease agreemene.t Does it allow them to charge for PRIVATE parking notices, or just fines and penalties?

Ok, I'm my experience of PCN's I thought it was quite unique in the VSC were trying to infer they had been provided with the drivers name by the lease company and throughout their correspondence refer to the keeper as 'you' the driver. Basically, lying and bringing into disrepute the name of the leasing company or suggesting that they have lied too.

[freddy1]

how do you know when a BW spokesperson is lying ?


his lips move

[nosferatu1001]

Its not unique, because its just VCS lying again. PPCs lie on a frequent basis. You are just required to rebut at every turn that this assertion by the lease company could have been mae, and that it wasnt possible fort hem to know this information in any case.

You obviously havent read any court claim documents, where Gladstones repeatedly call the defendant the driver, when they know even less about the case than the PPC do.

[Chipper64]

Well, I might not of read many court claim documents but in the past 12 months I've been fighting 3 PCN's so I do have some experience that I value in this field.