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NIP 14 Day Rule after some year's, Has anything changed in 15 years?
A406
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:28
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Hi there.

It's been a while since I last posted.
I have been on the speeding ticket "wizard" but the initial posts on the subject are over 15 years old now so I just wanted to check if anything much has changed since then?!

The nuts and bolts are -

I've received an NIP through the post for the alleged offence of exceeding a variable speed limit via an automatic camera device.

The offence was alleged on 13th December 2018.
The NIP was dated January 3rd 2019 (and received on January 4th)

It's not even close to 14 days!

The address is correct, I'm the owner of the vehicle.
There are no issues with previous owners, spelling mistakes, recent moves of house, postal strikes, this is the first notice etc.

What is the protocol regarding an out of date NIP?
Is it still the same as the 2003 posts on here, with a suggested template letter (as suggested by the RAC legal team)back to (in this case) The Prosecutions & Casualty Reduction Unit....instead of the relevant constabulary?

Thanks in advance..
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post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:28
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cp8759
post Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 14:25
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I would add that if it can be shown the offence was 77 in a 70, the police will normally drop the matter, hence it's worth double checking with the highways authority.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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A406
post Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 18:18
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Tue, 8 Jan 2019 - 13:49) *
QUOTE (A406 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 22:37) *
Yes my address is correct on the V5, and my driving licence etc and there hasn't been a change in my address, or change of vehicle or any documents in some considerable time (The V5 hasn't changed for several year's)



QUOTE (A406 @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 13:39) *
Dammit.
On research of my documents it seems I didn't receive a new V5 (for whatever reason) when I moved house some months ago and my V5 was (is still currently) registered to my old address.


Despite my confusion over the two quotes above, the offer of a fixed penalty (or course if you're eligible) will be the same for the two speed limits, with the proviso that they wouldn't normally proceed with 77 in a 70.


Sorry it was a poor edit on my part.
The licence was correct and I thought the v5 was as I sent off for a new one some months ago.
I've just wrongly presumed I received it nearly a year ago and for some reason I haven't so my v5 has my old address on it still
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The Rookie
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 01:28
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So still to clarify, you have the V5c with the old address? Implying you did not send it off, or your wording is poor as the V5c no longer exists (lost and therefore has no address) but the registered keeper address is still your old one, please be precise.


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Unzippy
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 05:12
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Why would the original NIP be sent to one address but the reminder to another - with no input from the addressee?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 06:37
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Possibly the person living at the old address returned it t sender or opened it and replied? Very likely answer.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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A406
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 18:54
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 01:28) *
So still to clarify, you have the V5c with the old address? Implying you did not send it off, or your wording is poor as the V5c no longer exists (lost and therefore has no address) but the registered keeper address is still your old one, please be precise.


It was sent off but a new updated V5 has not been received.
I can only put this down to lost in the post, admin error etc

As it stands today what is currently in existence is the V5 with my previous address.

I am STILL trying to contact the relevant issuing party to establish exactly the state of play with this NIP (eg. is it original or reminder?)

It still does seem an incredibly speedy state of play, if an offence occurred on the 13th December that by January 4th, they have sent out an NIP to an incorrect address, (presuming) the current owners have sent it back "No longer at this address", again pretty much immediately and they have done the investigating via the DVLA, and sent out an NIP to my current address using my correctly updated driving licence, with no input from me....all within approx 2.5 weeks (allowing for weekends and three days bank holiday over Xmas / New Year)
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The Rookie
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 01:51
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Ore likely they accessed the MIB database after getting a response, a work of seconds.

The law requires it is served on the registered keeper (or driver who they don’t know) at their last known address, so even if they THOUGHT you had moved would still have to serve it on the adddress last provided for the RK.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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andy_foster
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 19:43
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 01:51) *
The law requires it is served on the registered keeper (or driver who they don’t know) at their last known address, so even if they THOUGHT you had moved would still have to serve it on the adddress last provided for the RK.


If they thought that he had moved would his previous address still be his last known address (as a point of law)?


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Andy

If you're going to try to contradict me, please at least try to get your facts straight.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 05:58
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I think thee are arguments both ways, but IMO yes, the emphasis on last and known.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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A406
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 13:28
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Call me cynical but I'm really suspecting some skullduggery with the "Camera Section" of this Casualty Reduction Unit department....

I'm trying to call them to establish if this NIP is a 1st issue, reminder etc.

When I phone them out of hours it goes straight to a recorded information / voice message without ringing. Pretty standard for a business.

However as soon as I phone them a second after 10am right through to closing time.....it's an engaged tone (an engaged tone in 2019?!) non stop!
I've been trying for days now. 20 plus times a day!!
I can guarantee if I phone a minute after the office closes it won't be the engaged tone....it will go straight to the recorded message.
No holding message or anything like that, just engaged......all day every day!

I don't actually think it's physically possible to speak to anyone. I think it's an un-manned "ghost department".

Is it worth writing to them instead (within this 28 day period) and explaining that I've tried to call etc etc and I'd just like confirmation of the status of this NIP or another approach?

Alongside this I'm waiting to hear back from the highways agency to confirm the variable speed limit status at the time of the offence....
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Logician
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 14:13
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Speak to the phone company and ask for the line to be tested as you are getting continuously engaged. They have a way of getting a signal through if the phone has been left off to avoid calls.


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BaggieBoy
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 14:15
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QUOTE (A406 @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 13:28) *
Alongside this I'm waiting to hear back from the highways agency to confirm the variable speed limit status at the time of the offence....

You might be waiting for some time, Highways Agency hasn't existed for almost 4 years.

This post has been edited by BaggieBoy: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 14:15
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A406
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 14:26
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 14:15) *
QUOTE (A406 @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 13:28) *
Alongside this I'm waiting to hear back from the highways agency to confirm the variable speed limit status at the time of the offence....

You might be waiting for some time, Highways Agency hasn't existed for almost 4 years.


Highways England then Mr Pedantic smile.gif
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NewJudge
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:59
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You need to disassociate your debate over the timeliness or otherwise of the NIP from your obligation to provide the driver's details. Whatever the issue is with the NIP that obligation still applies (as in post #7). The NIP being late (if indeed it was) will not protect you from a prosecution under Section 172 and I calculate you have until 4th February for your response to the request for driver's details to be received.
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A406
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 11:50
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 16:59) *
You need to disassociate your debate over the timeliness or otherwise of the NIP from your obligation to provide the driver's details. Whatever the issue is with the NIP that obligation still applies (as in post #7). The NIP being late (if indeed it was) will not protect you from a prosecution under Section 172 and I calculate you have until 4th February for your response to the request for driver's details to be received.


Thank you for the reply. I appreciate the reminder and confirmation. This I'm aware off with regards to the naming.
Essentially I'm trying to establish as much information as possible regarding the circumstances prior to sending off the NIP.

Knowledge is power apparently smile.gif
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