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Parking ticket - signage not visible from car, Signage at furthest end of cul de sac!
HNorm
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:05
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Hi,

I just parked my car in a parking bay in a cul de sac. I looked around and there was no signage whatsoever, so I just left it there. When I returned I had a £55/£110 ticket!

The road was a cul de sac and I had pulled into the first available part of the long parking bay nearest to the entrance to the cul de sac. When I walked right to the other end of the long bay, there was a sign as far as it was possible to go from the entrance to the cul de sac, but still just about still in the parking bay, saying you can't park there.

The sign was in no way visible from my car and was right at the wrong end of the cul de sac, as far from the entrance that it was possible to be. Can I appeal this?

Many thanks!
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post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:05
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 15:02
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What was the date of the notice of rejection


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HNorm
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 15:10
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28/1/19 unfortunately.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 15:18
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QUOTE (HNorm @ Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 15:10) *
28/1/19 unfortunately.


Get it filed we can add to it if its accepted and when the council submit their evidence


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HNorm
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 15:46
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I just uploaded it via the website. Thanks for your help again!
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HNorm
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 09:56
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Hi, thanks for all your help with this - had some good news.

Have received an e-mail saying 'it's later but we are going to accept/look into it anyway'. April 3rd.

I've seen people online receive an 'it's late but you would have been rejected anyway'. So I reckon this means I have a decent case if they are going to waive the lateness and consider it anyway.
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HNorm
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 17:16
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Is there any reason to add to my defence please? I kind of feel like I've said it all already really (three times!). Ta.
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cp8759
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 21:27
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QUOTE (HNorm @ Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 17:16) *
Is there any reason to add to my defence please? I kind of feel like I've said it all already really (three times!). Ta.

Has the tribunal given you a deadline to submit your full grounds of appeal?


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HNorm
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 07:46
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29th March.
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hcandersen
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 08:09
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Then just wait and take a deep breath.

From your earlier post I presume you elected for a postal hearing? Pl confirm.

Anyway, here is the appeals process for your info only at this stage:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/appe...ocess-explained

You are at bullet point 3 of Stage 2.

This is where the adj notifies the council that their bluff has been called and that their arguments and decisions will be examined by an independent party. The ball is now in the council's court.

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HNorm
post Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 09:33
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Thanks for replying. Yes, I have opted or postal. I'm certainly not wasting a day's holiday on this!

Great - I am happy with that position. I don't see how their 'position' can stand up to scrutiny. If it had any credibility, they would have stated it before instead of just vaguely asserting that 'the signage complies'.

The only issue is that my last appeal of three was a few days late. But I am hopeful that the adjudicator's decision to consider it none the less indicates that they can see the merit in my position.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 10:25
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That's history, fret ye not.
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HNorm
post Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 10:49
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Ah, great to know - thanks!
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HNorm
post Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 06:27
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Well, I'm really surprised at this but I have been rejected again. And, the most infuriating thing, he has decided to completely ignore the point about the signage not complying with the legislation or even acknowledge that part of the appeal. I really want to press this point with them as I feel someone should acknowledge it and offer an explanation, but it appears they've just stonewalled it three times now and now I'm out of rights of appeal! Feels like a carve up.

Adjudicator's Reasons
A contravention can occur if a vehicle is parked in an on-street resident permit holders only parking, without clearly displaying a valid permit.
There appears to be no dispute that the vehicle was parked in this bay in Hindsleys Place, or that the Penalty Charge Notice was issued to it, as shown in the photographs/digital images produced by the Enforcement Authority.
Mr XXXXXXXX's case is that he did not see any sign restricting parking. The vehicle is clearly in a marked bay and the timeplate for the bay states 'Resident permit holders
only'. There is no time shown on the sign and thus the restriction applies twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week.
It does remain the responsibility of the motorist to check carefully on each occasion before leaving their vehicle, so as to ensure that they park only as permitted and that this will remain the position for as long as the vehicle will be there. This includes making sure that they comply with all restrictions and prohibitions indicated by the signs.
Considering all the evidence before me carefully I must find as a fact that, on this particular occasion, a contravention did occur and the Penalty Charge Notice was properly issued.
Accordingly this appeal must be refused.
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cp8759
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 15:16
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Well the council must have decided to contest the appeal at which point they must have replied with an evidence pack. At that point you could have come back here for advice, not sure why you didn't?


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HNorm
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 08:42
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I opened the evidence pack and it was just a collection of everything submitted so far. I was of the understanding that the adjudicator had everything that I had already submitted. I didn't see much point in reiterating my points for the fourth time!

Have I done something wrong? The adjudicator already had all my evidence. What else could I add?

I cannot believe for a third time they have ignored the point about the signage being hidden down the wrong end of the cul de sac. Feel I deserve a response on this!

The only ground I seem to have is this:

"The interests of justice require a review. You should note that an adjudicator's findings of fact are normally regarded as final and will only be overturned if they are plainly incompatible with the evidence that was before the adjudicator. The mere fact that you disagree with these findings is not a ground for review."

Being that the signage does not comply. But they keep ignoring that fact and I'm not holding my breath. This is very frustrating!
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cp8759
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 08:43
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QUOTE (HNorm @ Wed, 1 May 2019 - 09:42) *
Have I done something wrong? The adjudicator already had all my evidence. What else could I add?

You probably couldn't add much, but I'm sure we could have come up with a few things to say. Still not sure why you didn't come back for advice but it's water under the bridge now.


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HNorm
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 08:48
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I thought the pack was literally 'here it is for your reference'. I didn't think a reply was necessary.
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cp8759
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 10:24
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QUOTE (HNorm @ Wed, 1 May 2019 - 09:48) *
I thought the pack was literally 'here it is for your reference'. I didn't think a reply was necessary.

A reply isn't mandatory but it's your last opportunity to put your case. There's a reason why I asked "Has the tribunal given you a deadline to submit your full grounds of appeal?", unfortunately no full grounds of appeal were ever submitted. It's a shame cos if you'd bumped the thread at the end of March we could have come up with something.


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HNorm
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 13:47
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Okay, but I'm assuming they would have at least read the case that I submitted already x3? Just checking that I haven't ended up submitting nothing at the final hurdle after all of this!

'Bump'.

This post has been edited by HNorm: Thu, 2 May 2019 - 16:12
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HNorm
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 16:25
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Thanks to all for your help with this, just gave in and paid my fine. Really not happy as the bay I parked in looks exactly the same as many other bays as I have parked in legally. Cannot believe that three times I could say 'the signage does not comply with the law, it is hidden down the end of the cul de sac', and they could reply '... but I think you'll find there is a sign!" Beyond belief but I guess they really wanted my money! Thanks again to all who helped out.
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