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Private Parking Ticket for OWNED Parking Space, Received county court claim for parking in our own space
Should I be confident to take this to Court?
Should I be confident to take this to Court & challenge the Claimant?
Yes [ 6 ] ** [85.71%]
No [ 1 ] ** [14.29%]
Total Votes: 7
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 09:19
Post #1


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My Fiance (Mr Hope) is the property owner for the parking
space which I have been issued this ticket for. I park in this
space on a regular basis since August 2017 when I work away in
London. Mr Hope on my arrival personally handed over the
permit for the parking space, and witnessed myself place this on
the dashboard of the vehicle. Unknown to myself & the Property
owner- when I have closed the vehicle it seems the wind has caught
the permit and blown it down the side of the vehicle seat.

Upon receiving the ticket & letters from the claimants Legal Rep,
we were advised by the Property Management company who support
this challenge to claim it via the claimants website
http://parkingandpropertymanagement.co.uk/appeal.my.pcn/ which we
did not receive a response from the claimant as I understand the
Property Management company were also going to discuss this with
the claimant (email can be provided). Believing this had been
resolved, we now challenge this county court claim. By being given
approval from the Property owner, who supports this challenge of
unreasonableness. My vehicle has been at the property
regularly since August 2017, with no issues or other parking fines
and believe the claimant should be more reasonable in reviewing
appeals when the case is resulted by a human mistake. The claimant
will have seen the vehicle various times previously. I do not as
such contest the ticket itself, but the unreasonable nature of
which the claimant is unwilling to review a case based on genuine
mistake.

The permits issued by the claimant do not come with any support to
secure the permits in the vehicles which I have now purchased
myself to not present the claimant another opportunity to issue a
parking for essentially parking in an owned space who I had
approval from.
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post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 09:19
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kommando
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 09:31
Post #2


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The contents of the Lease is where this will stand or fall. The lease has primacy, so as long as it does not give away rights then the claim will fail.

Did you need to sign a contract or piece of paper for the permit.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016...al-parking.html
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 09:43
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Thank you for responding.

No I didn't sign anything, but the attached images are one of the parking sign in our car park, and the document the permit came with, which you will see the tear away of the permit.

As such i do not contest they gave me a ticket, but believe it is really unreasonable when we pay the ever increasing property prices, and there is no reasonable solution when a simple genuine mistake is made, especially when my Fiance owns the Property including the parking space.

Any help or advice is much appreciated.
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kommando
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 09:51
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As its a legal claim that's be raised you have to defend it using contract law, all the arguments you have raised so far are not legal argument but mitigation and so doomed to fail.

You need a copy of the property owners lease.

Also where in the process are you.

Have you acknowledged the claim, what if any defence have you filed.
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ostell
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 10:02
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If the lease shows that the parking space is included with the demised property then the claimant is on a hiding to nothing. If there is a right to park then those signs have no meaning as there is already a right to park and you don't need a contract with them to park.

If the management company hired PPM and have told them to withdraw the charge then again they are on a hiding to nothing.

If the lease does not require you to display a permit then no third party company can require you to do so. The lease will also not say that you have to pay a charge for not displaying. The permit has been displayed for the convenience of the PPMs operatives and there is no intention to create a contract with them by doing so.

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 10:04
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 10:02
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Indeed, youre jumping ahead

FIrst things first

1) What was the date of issue?
2) Have you Acknowledged the claim, ONLINE, using the details on the form? If NO, DO THIS NOW. Do NOT start the defence!
3) Do you know what the lease says? If no, get a copy of it and READ THROUGH IT.
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 10:42
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I have just been through the lease, and there isnt much detail other than highlighting the specific space which is my owned property, you will find this attached which shows my property surrounded in a red line, along with car part space number 105 which again is highlighted in red. Nothing in the lease which dictates I have to display a permit, nor any charges relating to the parking space.

There are comments about parking spaces in the lease which I am happy to share attached, but again no real detail. We have acknowledged the claim online via the form.

Appreciate the support.




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Attached File  SKMBT_C36017020810000.pdf ( 135.56K ) Number of downloads: 15
 
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kommando
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 11:19
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There will be other relevant sections on the lease which do not refer to parking but will define the rights of say the managing agent and also phrases such as unfettered rights of the leaseholder. These need to be seen to, if its a big document scan the lease into a searchable pdf format and then search for other sections.

Having a diagram with the parking bay included is a good start. Was the car in that bay when ticketed ?
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 11:31
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I will get it scanned tomorrow and update you all.

The vehicle was parked and ticketed in the correct owned parking space 105.

Many Thanks
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 12:26
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I am a confused.

Have you actually received a claim form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton?

If your fiancé only has a draft lease, you need to get hold of a copy of the final version.

The form of solicitors which handled the purchase for your fiancé probably has the final version in its files. They may well provide your fiancé with a copy free of charge.

Failing that, you can apply to the Land Registry for a copy the lease using form OC2.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 12:27
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 12:39
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Apologies for any confusion, see below:

Yes have received a claim form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton.

Thanks for letting me know, we will request a final version, hopefully electronic which makes it easier to search. But on 2nd 3rd scan I cannot see anything relating to rights to the 'Management Company' relating to charges.



This post has been edited by hope8861: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 12:51
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ostell
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 13:39
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What's the date on the claim form so we know the timetable.

There should also be "peaceful enjoyment" in the lease and the lessor promises not to allow interference from third parties
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:03
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The issue date of the claim form was 01 June 2018 & then issue of the ticket itself was back on the 28th November 2018.

There is wording relating to peaceful enjoyment, or similar as per the below:

"The Tenant paying the Ranta and tho Tenant'e Proportion of the Estate Service Charge Costs hereby reserved and observing and performing the several covenants and stipulations on the part of the Tenant contained herein shall peaceably hold and enjoy the Property throughout the Term without any Interruption by the landlord or any person rightfully claiming under or Intrust for the Landlord."


Many Thanks
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:12
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If you have not acknowledged service of the claim through MCOL, do so immediately.

But do NOT enter your defence yet. Leave the defence entirely blank.
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:25
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In everyone's rough opinion based on the below facts demonstrated through this chain, would you say I should challenge this?

1) Very unreasonable claim with excessive costs
2) My Fiance owns the Property
3) The Property Owner instructed me and gave me approval with the permit
4) Yes, human and genuine mistake was made
5) Ownership of the Parking Space can be demonstrated via the Lease Contract
6) No direction in the Lease Contract that I am responsible for any chargeable costs relating to not adhering to certain contractual terms
7) I have acknowledged the claim via the MCOL and intend the defend the full claim amount
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Jlc
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:49
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QUOTE (hope8861 @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 15:25) *
...would you say I should challenge this?

Absolutely. I would not be paying them without a judgment against you.

We cannot guarantee a win though.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 16:28
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Why not look up other residential property threads to see what defences were made there. Perhaps this article will give you some ideas

Basically they do not own the land
Do not have the landholder's (your fiancees) permission to operate on that land.
There is no need for another alleged contract offered by them for parking when that right already exists.
They are a stranger to the lease and the lease is superior to any rights that they may think they have.
The lease does not required a permit to be displayed nor a sum of money to be paid for non display

Were they aware previous to this ticket that the car was owned by the landholder, or a guest of the landholder? I am thinking along the lines of building up to a breach of the DPA for the misuse of your personal data when they had no valid reason to obtain it and causing distress and suffering.

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 16:31
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 17:33
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The Parking Company do not have any information that the space is actually owned by my Fiance, they work only on the basis that you need a paper slip in the window of the vehicle.
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 18:22
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Residential parking claims are usually very winnable by, of course, the leaseholder.

The parking contractor will be banking on you losing your nerve and backing down. That's how they make their money. Don't let them do it to you.

You will almost certainly want to make a counterclaim because, when a parking contractor finds itself up against someone willing to assert their rights, the contractor often tries to discontinue the claim just before the court hearing. Submitting a counterclaim prevents this happening.

Your lease is your greatest friend. Use the draft lease for now. If you can, get it scanned as a searchable pdf document - you need something better than the free version of Adobe for this. Then conduct a search for "park". Copy and paste every bit of the lease containing a word with the stem "park" into a new document.

Then go through it again to look for anything that makes provision for changes to the lease to be made or for rules and regulations to be added by the landlord and/or the management company. Copy and paste those bits to the new document.

Do the same again but, this time, looking for anything about "rights of third parties". Copy and paste again.

Search for "rent", "charge" and "permit". Copy and paste anything of relevance.

Do not just select extracts which suit your case, copy and paste everything of relevance. The reason for this is that, if the parking operator gets a copy of the lease, you need to figure out how to defend yourself from extracts that they throw at you.

On each search, go though the lease from beginning to end.

Post what you find.

Is a management company one of the parties to the lease?

Did you receive a letter before claim or letter of claim - they are the same thing - before receiving the claim itself?

If you did receive an LBC/LOC, post it (suitably redacted so that you cannot be identified).

Did you reply to any LBC/LOC? If you did, post it too.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 18:23
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hope8861
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 18:49
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Thank you, really appreciate the support.

I am getting an electronic version of my final lease tomorrow, and will conduct all the appropriate searches and extract all the data, including the bits not necessarily in my favor, but at least prepare myself.

The Parking Management company are not apart of the lease contract I have, this is between myself & the Landlord who make mention only to the Property Management Company as a Third Party, rather than the Parking Management. They are not the same company.

Yes I received two or 3 letters before the claim was made, but the Property Management Company wanted to try and sensibly resolve this as they side with myself, which is why we did not respond to them. Only when the trail went quiet, did we then receive the claim form.

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