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FightBack Forums _ Speeding and other Criminal Offences _ Application for Name and Address - Section 172

Posted by: 7builder Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:04
Post #1373807

Good morning all,

On Monday 9th April I received the attached letter from Gloucestershire Constabulary which I initially thought was a NIP but having used the NIP Wizard I am no longer sure. If it is a NIP then it arrived 15 days after the alleged event having been sent on Friday 6th April by 1st class post.

I have concerns about the content and information in the letter as it refers to an event at a supermarket car park but does not state a time which is going to be difficult to determine who out of the 3 possible drivers were driving at the time. The letter also asks me to return the details of the driver in the stamped addressed envelope enclosed but there wasn't one provided. Then going on to the part where I am supposed to fill in the driver details (section B) there is a statement at the bottom that refers to Section A and B but there is no section A anywhere on the form.

How should I proceed with this as I am fully aware of the consequences of not complying with section 172 but there are so many inconsistencies with the letter I have been sent?


Posted by: BaggieBoy Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:12
Post #1373809

QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04) *
Good morning all,

On Monday 9th April I received the attached letter from Gloucestershire Constabulary which I initially thought was a NIP but having used the NIP Wizard I am no longer sure. If it is a NIP then it arrived 15 days after the alleged event having been sent on Friday 6th April by 1st class post.

I have concerns about the content and information in the letter as it refers to an event at a supermarket car park but does not state a time which is going to be difficult to determine who out of the 3 possible drivers were driving at the time. The letter also asks me to return the details of the driver in the stamped addressed envelope enclosed but there wasn't one provided. Then going on to the part where I am supposed to fill in the driver details (section B) there is a statement at the bottom that refers to Section A and B but there is no section A anywhere on the form.

How should I proceed with this as I am fully aware of the consequences of not complying with section 172 but there are so many inconsistencies with the letter I have been sent?


The image hasn't enough resolution to be readable. Since the letter is regarding an accident, there is no 14 day limit in play here.

Posted by: 7builder Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:17
Post #1373810

HI BaggieBoy I have added a better image so you should be able to read it now.
There was no accident on the day in question or no reference to one either.

Posted by: peterguk Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:17
Post #1373811

QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04) *
How should I proceed with this


Right now you are simply being asked for driver details at the time of the alleged offence. Ensure you reply with driver detai9ls within 28 days.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:26
Post #1373817

QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:17) *
QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04) *
How should I proceed with this


Right now you are simply being asked for driver details at the time of the alleged offence. Ensure you reply with driver detai9ls within 28 days.

Except there doesnt appear to be a time - just a date

Maybe give a timeline - between x and y, this driver, between y and z, this driver, on the day in question?

Posted by: 7builder Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:35
Post #1373826

I'll call them as I don't even have an address to reply to as the stamped addressed envelope wasn't included

Posted by: Logician Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:36
Post #1373827

QUOTE
..............Section A and B but there is no section A anywhere on the form.


Perhaps Section A was the part you have redacted, that is the only way it makes sense. As above, giving a timeline for each driver is the best way to respond and you will have to reply to the Central Ticket Office at the address given as you have not been given an SAE.

Posted by: 7builder Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:01
Post #1373841

As the date of the incident is way outside the timeframe to receive a NIP and there wasn't an accident what other options would the police have to deal with this once they have established who was driving?

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04
Post #1373847

Do you have the V5C?

If so, what’s the doc ref date at the bottom of page 2 in DD MM YY format?

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:06
Post #1373850

If the incident took place in a car park the allegation is most likely in relation to a bump. There is therefore an allegation of an accident. As such, no NIP is required, subject (IIRC) to any argument by the defendant that he was unaware of any accident.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:33
Post #1373856

QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:01) *
As the date of the incident is way outside the timeframe to receive a NIP and there wasn't an accident what other options would the police have to deal with this once they have established who was driving?

No accident the Keeper was aware of. That doesnt mean there was no accident. You need to be aware of that distinction.

Posted by: 7builder Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:52
Post #1373860

An off duty policeman was supposed to have filed a report having witnessed my car drifting and wheel spinning in the car park so no accident. As a policeman filed a report I asked what time the incident took place. I was called back and told it was between 18:30-21:00 - basically when the event took place. I asked if I could be provided with the time of the actual incident as this would be in the officers report but this is apparently not available. I was then told during the phone call to try and determine who was driving between 18:30 and 21:00 but if I was unable to put I should return the form blank and put a note in there that it was not possible to do so. I voiced my concern in doing so as I was fully aware of the consequences of not complying to Section 172 nd the caller from the ticket office said that was not a problem as she would add a note to my file stating that was what she has advised and also recorded our conversation.
Anyone have any thoughts?

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:35
Post #1373871

I certainly wouldn’t be counting on what she said.

Unless one of the possible drivers mentions driving in the manner described, reply naming the drivers across the relevant time frame with times and allow the Police to sort it out with the witness.

Posted by: Logician Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:44
Post #1373875

I would also mention that their letter was received by you 15 days after the alleged incident, as the allegation is inconsiderate driving which would not be the appropriate charge if an accident had occurred.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:47
Post #1373876

Is it? They may be considering DWDCA or even dangerous driving.

Posted by: 7builder Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 13:00
Post #1373880

No NIP within 14 days so would they be able to prosecute for DWDCA or Dangerous now?

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 13:40
Post #1373891

I dont believe Dangerous needs a NIP within 14 days. Quite a few offences dont.

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 13:46
Post #1373897

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 14:40) *
I dont believe Dangerous needs a NIP within 14 days. Quite a few offences dont.

I've not checked later amendments but schedule 1 to the RTOA 1988 suggests otherwise.

Posted by: nosferatu1001 Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 14:00
Post #1373902

Fair enough, hence "believe" not "know".

Either way, names have to be given otherwise the S172 is still an issue

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 15:12
Post #1373918

No nip is required for ‘motor racing or trial of speed’.

Posted by: 7builder Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 15:34
Post #1373922

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 16:12) *
No nip is required for ‘motor racing or trial of speed’.

But it is for other offences as stated on law on the web's web site......

You must be informed via a NIP before you can be charged for certain driving offences. These include:

dangerous driving
careless and inconsiderate driving
speeding
leaving a vehicle in a dangerous place
failing to comply with a traffic sign

As the letter states inconsiderate driving on 25/03/18 surely they now fall foul of the 14 day rule?

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 15:55
Post #1373925

Only for that offence or another needing a NIP, if they chose to prosecute you for an offence that doesn’t need a NIP then of course they can. (Success is a different matter).

Posted by: Logician Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 19:34
Post #1373986

The OP is alleged to have been arsing about in a car park, drifting and wheel spinning, the charge needs to be relevant to that. Motor racing or trial of speed requires more than one vehicle and a public road, so is not appropriate.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 01:32
Post #1374035

We don’t know there weren’t two cars.....

Posted by: 666 Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 06:32
Post #1374042

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 02:32) *
We don’t know there weren’t two cars.....


But we do know it wasn't on a road ...

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 07:45
Post #1374051

Good point.

Posted by: NewJudge Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 07:45
Post #1374052

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 07:32) *
But we do know it wasn't on a road ...

But it was almost certainly in an "other public place". Not sure if "Inconsiderate Driving" (if that what the charge turns out to be) can be committed in an "other public place". I expect so. The problem I see for the Constabulary is that nowhere on the notice does it say a prosecution is being considered and even if it did (assuming the OP is the RK and there have been no changes of details) the letter was served after 14 days. So unless a charge that does not require a NIP is under consideration, they may struggle.

Posted by: Logician Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 17:24
Post #1374256

QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 08:45) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 07:32) *
But we do know it wasn't on a road ...
But it was almost certainly in an "other public place". Not sure if "Inconsiderate Driving" (if that what the charge turns out to be) can be committed in an "other public place". I expect so.


Inconsiderate driving can be, motor racing can't be.


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