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Court Summons for 3 offences
mrmk
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:22
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Hi, I've sent sent a summons by Kent Police to attend court on the 16th of April for the following:

-Careless driving
-Failure to stop
-Failure to report


I was doing a 3 point turn on the 17th of August 2017 and I accidentaly bumped a parked car but didn't get out to check the other car because I didn't think significant damage was done. Anyways, interviewed on 3rd of December 2017 by police and a statement wasn't provided until the 13th of March 2018. In regards to the witness statement, it is dated as " 24th JULY 2017" which is a month before the incident happened. The witness does have CCTV footage of the incident and I admitted to bumping the car in the cautionary interview after being told this. I intend on pleading guilty; however, I don't want to lose my licence via totting up as I've only had it for a year now and am only 18. My question is what do you think will happen and does the incorrect date of the witness statement affect its admissibility? Also, how do I know when the papers were lodged with court? The Kent Police documents were printed on the 14th of February (just under 6 months) but the prosecutor's proof by written statement document is dated as the 5th of April 2018, which is more than 6 months after the incident.


Lastly, I have been asked to pay a £85 fine and to show income but I am a full-time student with no income and living with my parents so how would this work? Am I also eligible for free legal representation/help?
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The Rookie
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 01:29
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Good luck, I’d try and keep it a little shorter, for example not doing anything wrong in just 18 mioths isn’t really any sort of positive!
Also if pleading guilty the error on the date isn’t relevant, it sounds churlish to bring it up and some sort of justification, I’d lose that, keep it relevant. Saying you were in a rush is aggravating not mitigating, why you need to drive isn't a consideration a court will consider. Its also sounds to much like a rehearsed speech, it needs to be personal and come from the heart, admit to being stupid/young/naive that HELPS.

Failing to report is to the Police, not the owner.

A quick 'thrifted' rewrite
QUOTE
I had held a full licence for less than 18 moths at the time of the incident, On the 17th of August 2017, I was in on my way to collect my AS exam results. I was completing a 3 point turn during which I accidentally bumped into a parked car. With hindsight i then panicked somewhat and didn't think properly, I didn't think to get out and check the affected car and instead proceeded to complete the turn. I fully realise that this was an error of judgement as I should have stopped and made an effort to speak to the owner of the other vehicle or later reported it. When I checked my own vehicle, there was no damage done and no one was hurt in the incident. When I was informed of the damage caused to the other vehicle, I told my insurer about the incident and the owner has been paid for the damage caused.


The £85 is prosecution costs and totally separate from any fine, the fines for the three offences will probably total about £300-500 based on a 'relevant weekly income' for which the minimum used is £120/week. Plus there will be the surcharge of 10%. After sentencing you'll be asked if you need time to pay, have your income and expenditure to hand and they will then allow you to pay at a rate per week/month.



This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 03:37


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mrmk
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 03:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 02:29) *
Good luck, I’d try and keep it a little shorter, for example not doing anything wrong in just 18minths isn’t really any sort of positive!
Also if pleading guilty the error on the date isn’t relevant, it sounds churlish to bring it up and some sort of justification, I’d lose that.

The £85 is costs, the fines for the three offences will probably total about £400-600 based on a weekly income, the minimum used is £120/week. You’ll be given time to pay if needed.


with an income of 0 due to being a full-time student and not working, how would the fines work? i have £85 to pay the prosecution costs and that's it
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ford poplar
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 03:38
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You admitted to 'bump' only after being informed of CCTV, which should also show you did not exit your vehicle to check for injury to another person, other vehicle damage or leave your contact details for other motorist.
You will need to declare any Convictions to current & future Insurers for requisite time period.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 03:41
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 04:25) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 02:29) *
Good luck, I’d try and keep it a little shorter, for example not doing anything wrong in just 18minths isn’t really any sort of positive!
Also if pleading guilty the error on the date isn’t relevant, it sounds churlish to bring it up and some sort of justification, I’d lose that.

The £85 is costs, the fines for the three offences will probably total about £400-600 based on a weekly income, the minimum used is £120/week. You’ll be given time to pay if needed.


with an income of 0 due to being a full-time student and not working, how would the fines work? i have £85 to pay the prosecution costs and that's it

As explained, what you have isn't an issue for the court, please see my update (didn't expect you to be reading it now so didn't make a new post, guess your having trouble sleeping).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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Colin_S
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 07:48
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Despite not exiting your car to check for damage, did you look for damage from the driver's seat?
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mrmk
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 07:49
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QUOTE (Colin_S @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 08:48) *
Despite not exiting your car to check for damage, did you look for damage from the driver's seat?



Yes I did - cctv footage would show me having paused for a few secs
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mrmk
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 11:45
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OUTCOME


5 points and £195 in total to pay (including the prosecution charges)
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I am Weasel
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 11:55
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Thanks for the update. That is about the best you could have hoped for.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 12:48
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The minimum points and very light fine under the circumstances, it’s less than the fine for the careless driving would be expected to be., so well done, you obviously came across fairly well.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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nigelbb
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 16:41
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 13:48) *
The minimum points and very light fine under the circumstances, it’s less than the fine for the careless driving would be expected to be., so well done, you obviously came across fairly well.

It’s just a shame that you now have been convicted of three offences that you will need to do inform your insurance company about.

A while ago I was in a similar situation of a minor bump in a car park that I was unaware of at the time. I too was charged with driving without due care, failure to stop & failure to provide details. I engaged a specialist motoring solicitor (Bobby Bell) who cost over £2000 but was worth every penny. The prosecutor eventually accepted a guilty plea to careless driving & the other charges were dropped. I too had five points but a £795 fine (I have a high income). Bobby Bell told me that it very much depends on the local police as to whether this sort of situation results in criminal charges. In metropolitan areas it’s normally just left to the insurance companies to sort out between themselves whereas rural forces (Lincolnshire in my case) are more likely to prosecute. It seems unfair to have a post code lottery but that’s the reality.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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southpaw82
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 17:10
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 17:41) *
It’s just a shame that you now have been convicted of three offences

He might have been...


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 20:10
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 17:41) *
In metropolitan areas it’s normally just left to the insurance companies to sort out between themselves whereas rural forces (Lincolnshire in my case) are more likely to prosecute. It seems unfair to have a post code lottery but that’s the reality.

Unfortunately there are many traffic offences where the prosecutorial policies varry significantly from once force area to the next.
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mrmk
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 09:47
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Whilst I am happy that it's 5 points instead of 6 or more, I am confused as to why Kent Police made absolutely no attempt to offer me a driver improvement course considering "minor damage" (exactly what the police said in court over live video) was caused to the other car and none to mine. I did tell the court person at the computer on the side that insurance sorted the damage out and they seemed to appreciate it before recommending to the 3 people at the front that 6 points shouldn't be given. £195 fine was calculated as if I'm receiving benefits as I have 0 income, which is lucky as it could've easily been £400+


still, very confused as to why no driver improvement course was offered seeing I didn't harm anyone nor cause significant damage under which case the only way of dealing with it all is prosecution

also waiting for my licence to update digitally as whilst i pleaded guilty, they only gave the 5 points for failing to stop so not sure if all three will appear or not but will wait and see

QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 17:41) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 13:48) *
The minimum points and very light fine under the circumstances, it’s less than the fine for the careless driving would be expected to be., so well done, you obviously came across fairly well.

It’s just a shame that you now have been convicted of three offences that you will need to do inform your insurance company about.

A while ago I was in a similar situation of a minor bump in a car park that I was unaware of at the time. I too was charged with driving without due care, failure to stop & failure to provide details. I engaged a specialist motoring solicitor (Bobby Bell) who cost over £2000 but was worth every penny. The prosecutor eventually accepted a guilty plea to careless driving & the other charges were dropped. I too had five points but a £795 fine (I have a high income). Bobby Bell told me that it very much depends on the local police as to whether this sort of situation results in criminal charges. In metropolitan areas it’s normally just left to the insurance companies to sort out between themselves whereas rural forces (Lincolnshire in my case) are more likely to prosecute. It seems unfair to have a post code lottery but that’s the reality.


can i ask why you thought paying over £2k was worth every penny if you still got 5 points for a *minor* bump just like i did, with me being unrepresented?


This post has been edited by mrmk: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 09:47
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Jlc
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 09:56
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:47) *
I am confused as to why Kent Police made absolutely no attempt to offer me a driver improvement course

Looking at your opening post it would seem it was too late to offer you a course (as they normally require them to be completed within 4 months).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:00
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:47) *
Whilst I am happy that it's 5 points instead of 6 or more, I am confused as to why Kent Police made absolutely no attempt to offer me a driver improvement course considering "minor damage" (exactly what the police said in court over live video) was caused to the other car and none to mine.

Its at the Police discretion whether to offer the course, I did cover this on the first page and I think the 'aggravating factors' that decided them not to offer one were were
1/ The failing to stop/report
2/ That a reasonable amount of damage was caused (and still fail to stop/report)
But mostly this
3/ "The witness does have CCTV footage of the incident and I admitted to bumping the car in the cautionary interview after being told this" which suggests you only admitted to the bumping AFTER being told about the CCTV, which suggests a deliberate attempt to 'cover your tracks'
Under those circumstances I'd have been loath to suggest a course was the right 'resolution'.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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peterguk
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:40
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:47) *
I am confused as to why Kent Police made absolutely no attempt to offer me a driver improvement course


Maybe because you refused to accept the allegation until video evidence was presented, by which time it was too late.


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nigelbb
post Yesterday, 03:58
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QUOTE (mrmk @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:47) *
can i ask why you thought paying over £2k was worth every penny if you still got 5 points for a *minor* bump just like i did, with me being unrepresented?

I think that you have been fortunate but were also blithely unaware of the potential seriousness of your situation. Failing to stop is a very serious offence carrying a potential prison sentence. In my profession any criminal conviction needs to be reported to the regulatory body & one that calls into question the individual's probity is particularly problematical.

The temptation in this sort of case is that the driver thinks that they have done nothing wrong & feels very hard done by & loses all sense of perspective. It's worthwhile to have a professional who has seen it all before & can offer a realistic and objective view of the situation & conduct a damage limitation exercise. It was worth it to me to pay someone to make sure the outcome was as good as possible rather than trusting to luck & my own partial view of my chances.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Yesterday, 04:00


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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